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ZorbaTHut  1yr ago (text post)   35177 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 19, 2022

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Missing point

Obviously I missed the other large dynamic- reaction from right-wing/anti-immigration groups. Historically the anti-migrant right in the UK has had issues with the Muslim population predominantly, although Hindus also experience plenty of general racism. Usual stuff about migrant control, importing violence etc. already being seen and likely to grow if this drags on.

Since the rightward turn in India, there is also a dynamic around alliances between anti-Muslim European politics and anti-Muslim Hindu politics. This doesn't seem that much of a leap, as historically Muslims=Labour (left) voters, Hindus=~Conservative (right), but more evenly split.

This probably originates in and reflects the poverty/education/wealth disparity between the two groups. Wealthier, middle Class, often East African Indians (those with origins in Gujarati merchant families are a major group in British politics), as opposed to the Pakistani community which largely originates from some backwards rural districts in Pakistan, or refugees more recently. It is an interesting dynamic.

Oh and almost forgot, was this related to the brawl? I don't see it mentioned in the article, so a coincidence?

Apologies if this sounds condescending- are you getting confused between Leicester and Leicester Square? The latter is in Central London.

Unless I've missed something no I imagine this is just another run of a mill stabbing in central London on the bank holiday weekend. Could potentially be if the victim was a Hindu perhaps?

Ah right, yeah I confused the two.

The split became very visible around 2019, when Labour brought up the issue of Kashmir following the removal of its partial autonomy and the lockdownds. I know a few anti-BJP Brit Indians who also got pissed off and voted Tory after that.

This spectator article presents an analysis similar to yours.

Also another anecdote, I've known a few pro-BJP Indians in the UK and US becoming sympathetic to white nationalists. I think this reflects on your earlier point that community relations are only good between Indians and whites, Indians and Muslim South Asian groups at times would rather not interact. The point about the wealth imbalance is on point, what's also interesting though is that Indian refugees from Uganda also seemed to have moved up the ladder since Amin's purge.

Yes that's a good point about Kashmir, I'd forgotten about that.

It's also worth pointing out that community relations between Indians and Muslims in some parts of the population are perfectly fine. Especially second-gen, upper/middle class, there are basically no issues beyond "I can't marry you as our parents wouldn't approve."

I also found this about Sikh-Muslim clashes in the 80s. As noted in the thread, this was during the height of the Khalistan movement in Indian Punjab. There's a lot of political baggage in the subcontinent, not always easy to shake away. Nevertheless, since the Indian middle class felt absolutely fucked from above and below back in India (where they're both taxed heavily, deal with Malthusian growth rates and there's pressure from below which doesn't sufficiently distinguish between the rich class and middle class in its grievances concerning exploitation), they were more keen to shed their identities once they immigrate. This is largely true in the US but I think political competition with Brit Pakistanis kept it alive in the UK.

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