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PaperclipPerfector  7mo ago (text post)   27229 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 6, 2023

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While I agree with the Rittenhouse verdict, the comparison doesn't work. Rittenhouse intentionally killed two people; when someone does that in circumstances other than those where self-defense is completely obvious (eg, defense of home), of course he is going to be arrested. In contrast, here there is no evidence that the killing was intentional. Moreover, the police had probable cause at the time to think that the Rittenhouse murders were premeditated.

Moreover, the police had probable cause at the time to think that the Rittenhouse murders were premeditated.

How so?

Because he came across state lines with a gun, and ended up shooting his political opponents. Again, based on facts that emerged, I do not think that he premeditated; in fact, I am sure that he did not, and I am sure that his acquittal was correct. But probable cause is quite a low bar, and of course is based on evidence known at the time of the arrest.

  • -11

Hm.

I don't think 'he opposed their political position' is very strong evidence of murder, but maybe that's just me. He said he didn't mean to, and what the suspect claims is what really matters.

What element of murder is it that you think is satisfied by that video?

I don't. But I'm not the person who just said "ended up shooting his political opponents" was evidence of not just murder but premeditated murder!

It is evidence, albeit slight, of premeditation in every case. The issue in the recent case is whether it is evidence that it was murder at all. That is a different question.

Again, if more evidence surfaces that indicates that this professor acted very violently, or whatever, then that IG post might become highly relevant. But it isn't very relevant now. And the point is what police know at the time of arrest. A police officer who knows that someone who intentionally killed two people and shot another, and who then finds out that the victims are the shooter's enemies, would have to be a moron not to suspect premeditation, even if that suspicion turns out to be unfounded.

And that is why Grosskruetz was arrested for brandishing, right? We had video evidence of him aiming at a retreating man, he spoke both before and after at length about how he opposed what Rittenhouse was standing for, and it later turned out his concealed carry permit had been revoked -- he actually was breaking the law, and given the limited legal avenues to revoke CCWs in the state, probably not just in carrying concealed.

Or... that didn't happen, no one cared, and you can't even get media coverage of the whole "armed ACLU 'observer' nearly shot a teenager who was defending himself."

You've gotta recognize how naked this salami-slicing looks. We can't have someone walking the streets after they TOOK A GUN ACROSS STATE LINES because despite clear video evidence of self-defense because it's possible that he was really guilty. Meanwhile, applauding terrorists as heroes, we really have to give the benefit of the doubt until and unless specific evidence that he "acted very violently" because it might just be involuntary manslaughter.

Which, last I checked, was still pretty damned illegal.

I'm not making a statement for which way justice should go -- there's tradeoffs each direction! -- but come off it. It's clearly not the same standard for each case.

I really don't understand what Grosskruetz has to do with anything, but, regardless:

because it's possible that he was really guilty

That is literally all that probable cause to charge a defendant requires: ""`"An information will not be set aside ... if there is some rational ground for assuming the possibility that an offense has been committed and the accused is guilty of it."' [Citation.]" (People v. Arjon (2004) 119 Cal.App.4th 185, 193 [emphasis in original].

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