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PaperclipPerfector  5mo ago (text post)   27475 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 27, 2023

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If you can show that women are less likely to be at risk from being doxxed due to a mixture of physical attributes and due to the nature of online gender mixtures and behaviours then sure. As that was my ACTUAL claim.

The logic of the argument is faulty. The physical attributes do not make doxxing more physically dangerous for women, for the same for the same reason they don't make any other encounter more physically dangerous for women. If you want to make the claim that doxxing is some super special exception that results in more violence for women, you need to actually back that claim up with something.

Remember we are encouraged to be specific here.

No we're not. You tactic of deliberately misinterpreting the rules in order to win an argument is as bizarre as it is ineffective. Go ahead and report me, if you disagree.

But at least address my claim

I did, but you're moving the goal posts. If you're making a claim, it is enough to point out that it's logic is faulty. You do not get to demand that someone brings evidence against an ultra-specific scenario, particularly when you've brought none yourself.

I didn't say it resulted in more violence, i said it could be riskier in part due to them being weaker.

Presumably you would agree that all else being equal if a woman and a man get in a physical altercation, the woman is at greater risk of harm? Not due to any moral differences, but simple biology.

Risk includes both the likelihood of something happening and how bad the outcomes are likely to be.

The other part of my argument is that due to the gendered ratio of the internet, it is more likely for a doxxed woman to have someone decide to actually find them than for a man. I think that is true, but perhaps only slightly.

However even if that chance is entirely 50/50 the first part of my argument would still mean women are at greater risk because they are weaker.

I didn't say it resulted in more violence, i said it could be riskier in part due to them being weaker.

If violence doesn't enter the picture, I fail to see how it's in any way riskier.

Presumably you would agree that all else being equal if a woman and a man get in a physical altercation, the woman is at greater risk of harm? Not due to any moral differences, but simple biology.

No, I won't, for precisely the reason you state below.

Risk includes both the likelihood of something happening and how bad the outcomes are likely to be.

And if I show you that women tend to suffer less physical harm in the event that they do get into a physical altercation, will you concede that your argument is wrong, or will you shift the goal posts yet again?

it is more likely for a doxxed woman to have someone decide to actually find them than for a man. I think that is true

Based on what?

However even if that chance is entirely 50/50 the first part of my argument would still mean women are at greater risk because they are weaker.

Fortunately for me, both parts of your argument are either unbacked by any evidence, or completely wrong.

No, I won't, for precisely the reason you state below.

But once you are already in a physical fight the chance of the fight occuring is no longer a factor. C'mon. ONCE you are in a fight was the whole point of that example at which point the fact that a woman may be less likely to get into said fight in the first place is already accounted for!

And if you are going to deny simple biological differences then clearly there is not much more to talk about. Men are on average stronger than women. In a fight where each is trying to hurt the other it is extremely likely the man wins and is able to hurt the woman more than she is able to hurt him. My evidence for this is physics and biology.

You don't seem to be actually making arguments against what I am claiming (in as much as you are making an argument at all), rather some version of what you THINK I am claiming.

But once you are already in a physical fight the chance of the fight occuring is no longer a factor. C'mon.

Which is why I asked if you're going to concede the argument, if I show you that women tend to be harmed less then men once in an altercation, or if you're going to move the goalposts again.

ONCE you are in a fight was the whole point of that example at which point the fact that a woman may be less likely to get into said fight in the first place is already accounted for

Actually, it's not. You're dismissing the factor of the chances to get into the fight, in order to show that they're more likely to get harmed. You said yourself that the likelyhod of harm must take both into accout. The problem is that you're not even bothering to show they're more likely to get hurt, once in a fight. For your argument to hold they would have to be injured a lot more than men, once in a fight, in order to compensate for the lower likelihood of the fight occurring.

And if you are going to deny simple biological differences then clearly there is not much more to talk about

Nope, everything I said us already after granting the biological differences.

You don't seem to be actually making arguments against what I am claiming

That's not true, I am directly addressing your claims.

Well then let's start at the base and work up to find the issue. Would you agree that men are (on average) stronger and more physically aggressive and therefore more likely to be able to inflict harm on a woman in a physical altercation, should they want to?

I'd actually like you to stop avoiding the question of which evidence is going to make you concede the argument, rather than shifting the goalposts, first.

But sure "more likely to be able... should they want to". If a man is absolutely determined to do damage, he will have an easier time doing so. That is miles away from "more likely to hurt a woman, once in a fight", and in another solar system from "(conditional on your original assumptions), doxxing is more likely to result in harm to a woman".

I'd actually like you to stop avoiding the question of which evidence is going to make you concede the argument, rather than shifting the goalposts, first.

I can't answer that question. Because I don't know what evidence will cause me to change my opinion until I see the evidence. That's not how people work.If you have evidence of whatever your argument is (which I am still unclear on) then simply provide it. Stop trying to create gotchas or whatever. That's why I am trying to work out where our disagreement is, because you haven't actually said at what step you think I am wrong.

Ok, so the next step up is I think should they want to. So would you contend that someone who tracked someone down physically after they were doxxed is less likely to want to hurt a woman than a man then? And then I suppose the next step up after that (just because this will take all day otherwise!) is if you think it is more likely that someone will attempt to physically find a woman who has been doxxed or a man?

I can't answer that question. Because I don't know what evidence will cause me to change my opinion until I see the evidence. That's not how people work.

You should be able to tell what logical conditions need to apply for your argument to be true, and concede the argument was false if one of them is not fulfilled, otherwise we are not having an honest conversation.

So would you contend that someone who tracked someone down physically after they were doxxed is less likely to want to hurt a woman than a man then? And then I suppose the next step up after that (just because this will take all day otherwise!) is if you think it is more likely that someone will attempt to physically find a woman who has been doxxed or a man?

Yes, yes, yes. I'm pretty sure generally men are less likely to inflict harm on women, than on other men.

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