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PaperclipPerfector  4mo ago (text post)   26671 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 11, 2023

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I do not think one injustice justifies another. We can, and should, get rid of both.

Empty words. Those pushing for gender equality have proven time and again that they only care about equality when women get the short end of the stick. You need to prove that you will actually get rid of both here rather than stopping once you get the benefits (EDIT:) if you want to convince me to support you.

I don't understand this sentence. No amount of women "show[ing] off" justifies sexual assault or harassment.

The problem is that behavior by men towards women that is perceived as sexual assault or harassment isn't perceived as such when done by women toward men. Men have to "justify" behaviors that women get to just do with no consequence. Women showing off therefore either needs to be more restricted than men doing so or women need to put up with all the behaviors from men that men have to put up with from women.

have to "justify" behaviors that women get to just do with no consequence

Please, please, when you make this argument explicitly name a specific example of a behavior women can do that men can't. It'd help the conversation so much, and prevent it from getting bogged down in each side repeatedly stating their beliefs without coming into contact with the other side.

See just about any instance of "sexualization". For some specific examples, see Julia Serano's Why Nice Guys Finish Last and my response at /r/theschism.

The problem is that behavior by men towards women that is perceived as sexual assault or harassment isn't perceived as such when done by women toward men. Men have to "justify" behaviors that women get to just do with no consequence.

I agree. Society does not take sexual harassment and assault of men by women nearly as seriously as it should.

Women showing off therefore either needs to be more restricted than men doing so or women need to put up with all the behaviors from men that men have to put up with from women.

I don't see how this follows. If the thing is bad we should want to have less of the thing, even if the improvement we make is not necessarily equally distributed among all impacted groups.

I agree. Society does not take sexual harassment and assault of men by women nearly as seriously as it should.

I don't think that's true; there just isn't enough sexual harassment and assault of men by women to justify taking it much more seriously.

I agree. Society does not take sexual harassment and assault of men by women nearly as seriously as it should.

Men don't need protection from sexual harassment by women. It's a trivial problem.

Men suffer different problems than women. Not necessarily more serious problems, but different ones.

If we are looking for men and women to have equal rights, we need to examine the ways in which each gender is currently harmed by society.

For example, in the current system, men are harmed by an anti-male education system which rewards female traits and punishes male ones. As a result of this anti-maleness, 60% of college students are women. Furthermore, this college experience, which is heavily funded by taxes, often rewards its graduates with tax-funded sinecures that provide little value to society.

Meanwhile, nearly all of dangerous jobs are performed by men. Men are 6 times as likely to die at work than women. The death rate for women at work is less than the death rate for accountants. Dangerous jobs, which are nearly exclusively performed by men, pay less on average than white collar work. Meanwhile white collar work is performed nearly exclusively by college graduates, the beneficiaries of anti-male discrimination.

Instead of worrying about women catcalling men, worry about the actual problems the affect men.

For example, in the current system, men are harmed by an anti-male education system which rewards female traits and punishes male ones. As a result of this anti-maleness, 60% of college students are women.

How would you make the current education system more pro-male?

IMO the reason most college students are women is women more strongly follow ideas they see others holding, and education is the thing everyone thinks you're supposed to do.

Put more emphasis on test results and less on subjective grades.

100% agree with all of this

I don't see how this follows. If the thing is bad we should want to have less of the thing, even if the improvement we make is not necessarily equally distributed among all impacted groups.

Sure, but I'm not going to waste my time and effort supporting improvements that are only seen by other people--especially people who have related privileges relative to me--unless they demonstrate a willingness to do the same for me. As I said before, people supporting gender equality now have a very high bar to meet in that regard, as they have a very strong history of saying they'll support men too to get my support and then never following through.

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