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Culture War Roundup for the week of January 8, 2024

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If he's a conspirator, who are his co-conspirators?

The "far-right anti-government militia" group (thanks wikipedia) that he was chapter president of? Prosecutors have had no trouble putting together conspiracy charges based on very little actual conspiring for other members of such groups.

I know that you think that the bar for conspiracy charges is high, and you are probably even right based on an honest reading of the law -- but that's not how the law is being used around J6, and I'm very confident that this case could have been made if someone were so inclined.

Clarification: Incitement is a high bar to reach. Conspiracy is actually a pretty low bar, and Epps is very lucky he doesn't reach it.

To convict you of a conspiracy, the prosecutor needs proof beyond a reasonable doubt of:

  1. An agreement between you and at least one other person to commit a crime

  2. At least one overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy (which does not itself need to be illegal).

In an alternate universe where Epps shouted "We need to go INTO the capitol!" and someone else shouted "Hell yeah!", that would be the agreement to commit a crime. Joining the rally marching toward the capitol would be an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy (even if he didn't actually go in). In other words, Epps was playing with fire and did everything necessary to be guilty of conspiracy charges, but because the people around him called him a fed instead of agreeing, he dodges a bullet.

I wouldn't be shocked if Epps indeed conspired with members of his militia to commit some crime or other, but I haven't seen any evidence of that, and evidence is necessary for a conviction.

I wouldn't be shocked if Epps indeed conspired with members of his militia to commit some crime or other, but I haven't seen any evidence of that, and evidence is necessary for a conviction.

That's just it -- these 'militias' are riddled with for-sure feds, if they wanted to go after basically anyone involved for conspiracy there's plenty of evidence to be had -- given that Jan6 itself is being treated as a criminal act.

Have you read the Revolver articles on Epps? It's been a while, but as I recall while they are focussed on the idea that Epps is a fed, they've gathered enough publically available information to make a pretty good conspiracy case -- never mind all of the evidence that the actual feds have from all the other prosecutions.

I've read them, I don't see the evidence. In particular, I don't see evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that anyone made an agreement with him to commit a crime.

OK, I looked at it again -- check the part towards the end of Pt 1, in which Epps is on video conspiring with 'MaroonPB' and Ryan Samsel just before they push the barricades down and rush the Capitol.

He tells the 'MaroonPB' guy to 'leave your pepper spray here when we go in there, we don't want to get shot' -- the guy then leaves the pepper spray and goes in there. That alone seems like enough for current-day definitions of conspiracy -- but Revolver News is not the FBI; if the FBI were inclined to go over these dudes' phone records (as they did with the other Oath Keepers et al) I'd be extremely surprised if they couldn't find some more fodder.

OK, I looked at it again -- check the part towards the end of Pt 1, in which Epps is on video conspiring with 'MaroonPB' and Ryan Samsel just before they push the barricades down and rush the Capitol.

As I understand it both Epps and Samsel say that Epps just told him not to attack police. They might both be lying but we don't have audio of what was actually said, so it seems hard to make the case that statement constitutes an agreement to commit a crime.

He tells the 'MaroonPB' guy to 'leave your pepper spray here when we go in there, we don't want to get shot' -- the guy then leaves the pepper spray and goes in there. That alone seems like enough for current-day definitions of conspiracy

This is getting closer, but I don't think it reaches "beyond reasonable doubt". "MaroonPB" doesn't seem to acknowledge Epps in the video. He's talking on the bullhorn, and he keeps talking even as Epps is telling him to leave the pepper spray. I think a reasonable person could have some doubt as to whether there really was an agreement between the two men.

but Revolver News is not the FBI; if the FBI were inclined to go over these dudes' phone records (as they did with the other Oath Keepers et al) I'd be extremely surprised if they couldn't find some more fodder.

I'm unimpressed by assertions that further evidence must surely exist if only the FBI would look for it. Maybe so, maybe not. But the fact that someone has not been charged on the basis of evidence that we haven't seen seems like an awfully long stretch to conclude that he must be an undercover agent.

What's your explanation for why the FBI removed him from its Most Wanted list?

My understanding is that he called them and identified himself.

I'm not actually sure what the purpose of a Most Wanted list is, but if I had to guess I would say it's for finding wanted individuals when you don't know who and/or where they are. If I'm correct in assuming that, then once you've located and identified a target, there's no reason to keep them on the list generating tips you no longer need.

The archives of those pages are linked in the first Revolver article, which shows the FBI had been updating the /wanted/capitol-violence page as each person's status changed (leaving each person's 'photograph number' the same). They were putting big red "ARRESTED" labels on everyone and leaving their picture up. The day before that July 1st update of quietly removing Epps, the top 50 people on the page had over 60% marked 'ARRESTED', while only two numbered suspects had been removed (Suspects #36 and #37, and then Epps #16 was removed the next day).

So the removal was clearly not just triggered by a successful identification. Moreover, based on looking at those red Arrest labels, it seems like their priority was roughly similar to the order of 'photograph number', where being Suspect #16 was close to the top (not many marked arrested in the 250-400 range at that time).