This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
These are good reasons why the US and China might not ban it. But an uninvolved third country could still have leverage. The US and China wouldn't have to lose face, they'd just say "oh well, this crazy third country really thinks this stuff is dangerous, we don't, but trade is more important to us, so we'll cave to their demands."
Certain GMO crops have been effectively banned because Europe doesn't like them. And that seems like a much bigger political lift than banning GOF research.
There are lots of semi-existing levers that nation states or medical orgs could use. They could just dumbly pretend that any city with a bio lab is the equivalent of a place with an active prion disease. They could just maintain COVID era quarantine policies for anyone visiting countries/cities with a bio lab. Those cities would become no-go zones for tourists, food exports, and casual business travel. That would at least force these labs out of big cities and into rural areas with no agriculture.
I think it would be relatively easy for any European country to single-handedly ban GOF research worldwide. They just have to:
These are all countries I think might be able to do it alone, but if any two or three of them teamed up it would definitely happen: UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, South Africa, Israel, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Mexico, Brazil, India, Singapore, Egypt or Panama. I keep thinking of more that might have just enough political capital to pull it off. They really don't need much, the interest group that cares about keeping these labs open is tiny and not very powerful. They've just lucked into a situation where the host country can't be the first one to ban them without losing a lot of face. But I doubt leaders in the US or China like having their reputation held hostage by a bunch of virologists, so they are only allies of convenience.
More options
Context Copy link