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PaperclipPerfector  3mo ago (text post)   2395 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for January 21, 2024

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I was discussing US politics with my wife, as one does, and immigration laws came up. I briefly told her about sanctuary cities, and in response she asked why anyone would support that. I had no answer.

I googled a bit and got some very bad answers, so I’m turning to the motte.

Can the motte provide some pro-sanctuary arguments, and some pro-illegal immigration arguments in general? Consider that you’re giving these answers to a none-American from an ethno-state that enforces its immigration laws, and generally frowns on immigration to it from different ethnicities.

Sanctuary cities are supposed to function as a sanctuary from unjust and brutal laws. Proponents would say it is unjust to deport a family who have resided in the US for twenty years, even if they immigrated illegally. The rationale is the same as that for hiding slaves/jews/etc. It is not abnormal to try to safeguard people that are being persecuted.

Thank you for providing an answer. These are the kinds of arguments that I found while googling, and I think they’re pretty bad. They just ignore outright what the laws are actually doing - i.e. allowing anyone who manages to cross the border to stay illegally - in favour of talking about something else or a very small subset of what the policy actually is. For example, the first thing my wife asked was “so criminals and terrorists can just come in?”, and nowhere did I see any mention of it in the pro camp’s arguments. I was hoping for a robust steelman, if one exists.

I will give you the best steelman I can. Cities are not responsible for border security. If ICE is not properly enforcing border control the city of Chicago cannot change things. Sanctuary laws will protect some criminals, but it will also protect long-time illegal residents. There is a tradeoff being made, and proponents think the cost is worth it. Your wife is correct that criminals and terrorists can just come in, but this is ICE's failure, not that of Chicago. Sanctuary laws only affect deportation.

Thank you! That's a fair steelman. It does look at sanctuary laws in isolation, though. Am I incorrect in thinking that the same camp that is pro-sanctuary is also against ICE enforcement? We'd call that "holding the rope on both ends", which I can't find a good parallel idiom for in English, but hopefully you get the meaning.

(To be clear, I'm not arguing the point, I really do want to get the strongest possible version of it so I'm trying to find the holes)

Yes, they are against ICE enforcement. Yes, you're right that they mostly just don't address concern about crime, etc.

Did you see the ongoing fight about the federal government cutting wire at the southern border, and the state of Texas trying to put it back?

Thanks, I'm reading up on this now. It sounds a little bonkers from the description here, which usually I interpret as myself not getting the full context. I'll try to dig a bit deeper.

The Supreme Court letting them continue is only until they actually decide the case. A bunch of conservatives are getting mad over what isn't actually a final decision on the merits of the case. The news and people in general are frustratingly illiterate and partisan on anything related to SCOTUS.

Both sides kind of have a point—the state isn't supposed to be obstructing the federal government, and cutting razor wire to let people in is clearly not what the law was intended for and not something that the federal government is allowed to do.

The Texas governor just argued that they have the constitutional right to continue, arguing that it's an invasion.

So yes, it's bonkers, on all sides.

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