site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 29, 2024

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

6
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Who do you actually think you're gaslighting here? The list of people eager to call you out after the hoax became obvious was practically endless, and the way you shamelessly feigned blindness to all of it was an instant meme with no moderator help required.

He had a post about "things I was wrong about" where he "acknowledges" the case by saying something to the effect of "haha, I guess I should have waited a few weeks before commenting", and would probably claim that means he didn't do what he's being being accused of.

What I'm being accused of:

and then refuses to acknowledge the case ever again

Even if you weren't satisfied with the depths of my grovelling at the time, would you agree that making a post where I said I was wrong about the case contradicts the claim that I refused to ever acknowledge it again?

"The case" was you calling us racists and conspiracy theorists, so no you never acknowledged that, or that it was wrong.

I was radicalized by interacting with the kind of progressive who calls people racist for not believing Jussie Smollet and then refuses to acknowledge the case ever again once it becomes apparent that they've made a booboo.

You honestly believe that is the most straightforward and parsimonious reading of the plain text of that comment?

That in a single sentence which references a police case in the first half of the sentence as the central matter at issue, and then uses the words 'the case' in the second half of the sentence, they are awkwardly referring to 'the case of the guy who was rude on the internet' rather than the police case the sentence is about.

That's what you're going to go with?

Your answer will tell me a lot about whether to treat your criticisms as good-faith in the future.

Yes, I'm going to go with "the case" in "refuses to acknowledge the case", referring to "who calls people racist for not believing Jussie Smollet " that literally immediately preceeds it.

That in a single sentence which references a police case

You honestly believe that is the most straightforward and parsimonious reading of the plain text of that comment? That because the sentence contains to word "case" it must refer to the police case?

Your answer will tell me a lot about whether to treat your criticisms as good-faith in the future.

Who do you think you're fooling here? I've never seen you have a constructive conversation with anyone here. You always came here to get your rocks off by riling people up.

Thanks, I know what I need to know now.