site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 26, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

26
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

First, all of this is celebrity gossip, and it's not just the gutter press or tabloid rags who eat it up with a spoon, even the 'serious' papers generally have royal correspondents. Tittle-tattle and controversy sell papers, so there is interest in having 'exclusives' and 'insider stories'. Even twenty-five years after her death, papers will still run articles on and about Princess Diana.

Second, a good deal of this is manufactured, and silly stories to boot. Before Meghan came along, Kate (as a commoner married in) was subject to the same kind of "she's a nightmare to work with, she doesn't understand the culture, she's too big for her boots" stories. As well as stories about who had the better arse, her or her sister. Yes, that level. Where drama doesn't exist, the media make it up, because conflict is needed for a juicy story. 'Tell all' books by courtiers and insiders and close friends and what-not have long been serialised by the media, and they whip up interest by giving juicy extracts like the "Meghan is a nightmare" one. 'Meghan and Kate are deadly rivals' is the story all the media love, and now Kate has been rehabilitated as the Good One to Meghan's Wicked Witch.

Third, there probably is a lot of behind-the-scenes (and not so behind) power tussles going on, especially now that Charles is finally king and William has moved into the position of Prince of Wales. Harry should be moving up as well, except that he and Meghan (or looks more likely Meghan) resigned as senior royals. So she definitely doesn't understand the role or how the monarchy works, and is behaving like a Hollywood celebrity and treating staff accordingly. The precedent of how the Duke and Duchess of Windsor were eased out is always there, and Meghan cut off her nose to spite her face when she walked out in an ultimatum. Doing chat show interviews about racism may go down well in the USA, but they don't make the Sussexes look good to the family back in Britain, and right now Meghan is doing all she can to bring down the fate of Fergie (Sarah Ferguson, ex-wife of Prince Andrew) on herself - reduced to having to go the chat-show circuit and make money wherever she can because she put herself beyond the pale. Just because you marry into the family doesn't automatically mean you are now rich; the 'working royals' are the ones who carry out various state duties, and they get paid from the monarch's allotment which is a combination of personal wealth and government income. If you don't want to do the duties, as Meghan allegedly didn't, then you don't get paid anything (Andrew, because of the Virginia Giuffre scandal, was stripped of titles and awards and right now is in limbo about his finances, for instance). Harry doesn't have any money of his own (unless his mother left him something, I don't know) because up to now he's been paid the allowance as a working royal. He doesn't own any estates or property personally. EDIT: Oops, I forgot that he was created Duke of Sussex as a revived title, and that is hereditary. So he is possessor of whatever estate goes with that.

We don't know what is really going on, and all the 'insider tell-all' books won't let us know, either.