This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Not true. Even if we assume that neoliberal capitalism is unassailably efficient, the inefficiencies induced by a socialist system would in many cases not be very great and could be protected with relatively modest tarriffs. And of course for many (perhaps most) industries, a regulated market is the best solution, as well evidenced by the real world.
Khmer Rouge and Ancapistan are two ends of a very long spectrum.
Very little of that spectrum is devoid of molochian tendencies though. Moloch is able to instantiate itself within even moderately small economies. especially if exposed to a global information source. Maybe my critique is better express in more concrete terms. If you can only really know 300 people, and I'm being generous here, and you want to know the people responsible for your various staples and customs then you're going to quickly run out of your 300 person budget. How many of those people are doing your sewer work, without economies of scale how many of them are cobbling your shoes and keeping your clothing patched up? Producing your food? Nearly zero of them are producing entertainment for you. Modern day man's consumption is the center of a web of many millions, isolating your economy isn't just a matter of cutting off some dubious Disney channels, it's paying a lot more for everything, including essentials and many going without for that fact. Those people are going to see what your vision costs them in very real and personal terms. If you can sell them on the vision you still need to deal with the fact that a collection of strong independant local communities are reliant on the kindness of other geopolitical actors to prevent their pillaging on a global stage. How do you produce cars if companies can't be allowed to grow so large that they commoditize the workers? let alone warships.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link