hydroacetylene
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User ID: 128
hydroacetylene
57m ago
As an actual IRL tradcath my understanding is that WELS, ROCOR Orthodox, and certain greek-catholic groups whose membership often overlaps with latin-mass groups anyways are the closest sociological analogues to traditional Catholicism(which is growing and does have staying power even if it's overstated). Maybe add Opus Dei too if you count them as a group. At @2rafa 's point about a possible inherent leftward drift- the SSPX is by far the oldest major tradcath group and also tends to be the most moderate on hot-button issues, despite having an uberconservative reputation, with the SSPX supporting things like old-earth instead of young-earth creation, knuckle under and get the covid vax if you have truly no other option, accepting longer periods of dating before marriage, etc. Now that could also just be because of having relatively fewer Americans in top positions making it less firmly red-tribe aligned, also, it's not inherently less conservative to believe you should get the covid vaccine if your employer won't accept any religious exemptions or that the earth might be as much as 30,000 years old.
hydroacetylene
1hr ago
Monkeys are routinely trained to work. They're used to pick coconuts in Thailand and I think a few other crops in more isolated instances, but they tend to be awful thieves and like to attack people as far as I know.
Agricultural labor- particularly fruit picking- also has a large amount of seasonal variation and most farmers prefer the flexibility of questionably-legal migrant labor to having to feed hundreds of mischievous and herpes ridden primates that get animal welfare folks all up in your business.
hydroacetylene
1hr ago
And in that way, it's really no different than the Vietnam protesters who shared the same elite characteristics. As early as 1966 Normal Mailer noted how the protestors were upper class while the policemen they fought were working class.
Indeed, actual working class protestors around the Vietnam war were sometimes allowed by the police to rough up the hippies far worse than the cops ever would.
hydroacetylene
1hr ago
And indeed there are historical examples of backlash moving society against liberalizing trends; that's what the famously strict Victorian norms came from. Both the 50s baby boom and the 90s mini-baby boom might also be arguable examples, but I think economic factors dominated there.
hydroacetylene
1hr ago
Is Nullification on the Horizon?
Recently the Biden admin rewrote some regulations to encode gender identity in title IX. While this is stupid, it's not something that in itself seems likely to be a productive motte top level post. Ken Paxton sued the white house over it, but this is just the default assumption about federal administrative rules on culture war topics. No, what I'm getting at is the letter from Greg Abbott:
Dear President Biden: Title IX was written by Congress to support the advancement of women academically and athletically. The law was based on the fundamental premise that there are only two sexes—male and female. You have rewritten Title IX to force schools to treat boys as if they were girls and to accept every student’s self-declared gender identity. This ham-handed effort to impose a leftist belief onto Title IX exceeds your authority as President.
I am instructing the Texas Education Agency to ignore your illegal dictate. Your rewrite of Title IX not only exceeds your constitutional authority, but it also tramples laws that I signed to protect the integrity of women’s sports by prohibiting men from competing against female athletes. Texas will fight to protect those laws and to deny your abuse of authority.
https://gov.texas.gov/uploads/files/press/O-BidenJoseph1.pdf
I guess telling the federal government to kick rocks back in January and getting away with it set a precedent- and, obviously, Joe Biden is not going to send the troops in to escort male athletes into the high school girl's locker room in an election year.
This obviously raises the question- are we on the cusp of an era where big state governors feel free to resist the federal government? Obviously, being combative with the Biden admin is a political winner for Greg Abbott. It's unclear what he'll use as a replacement for it in the likely event that Trump sits there next year; I don't think he thinks he can get away with bullying New or old Mexico but the strongman image requires something. And, of course, are Ron Desantis and Gavin Newsom and Kathy Hochul watching closely and learning? Will they resist Trump policies as brazenly(no, blue states have not denied federal forces the ability to operate, their examples of arguable nullification are more noncooperation than open defiance and resistance) as Abbott does Biden's, given that he's emboldened by a base which may not be pro-secession but is absolutely confident Texas would be fine if it did happen?
hydroacetylene
1hr ago
And from the other side of the mirror- living around many people who think that the majority of women should be housewives without careers- almost all of them don't push for women to do all domestic tasks and think husbands should at least contribute even if for practical reasons most housework and childcare is going to be done by women.
hydroacetylene
1hr ago
My suspicion is that Korea is just a sucky place due to their lifestyle and that places which are sucky for fixable-seeming reasons(Koreans could just not do the things that make them miserable if they could figure out the coordination problem) are drawn to radical and generally bad ideas. You used to see it a lot with communism; tsarist Russia was genuinely worse off than its neighbors even if everyone expected it to catch up eventually. I'd hazard a guess that Korea has built-in antibodies to communism for obvious neighbor-related reasons and that it has no such antibodies to feminism, allowing it to run wild into radical man-hating.
In other words, Korean gender wars are a side-effect of the same factors driving down the birth rate. And I've pointed out before that people don't have kids if they expect it to be a miserable experience all around which for Koreans is a very reasonable and grounded expectation. I like to compare to rednecks in America who absolutely love being parents and have a replacement fertility. My tribe's TFR advantage isn't because of our better family values, it's because we expect to actually like it(well, kind of- I'm talking about the broader red tribe here and not about tradcaths specifically, that TFR is probably due to conservative family values).
hydroacetylene
9hr ago
Americans already believe in God at very high rates by developed world standards, and that number is surely much higher among the red tribe. Declining church attendance probably has a temporal-world solution that could be routed into with the right social structures/church outreach/whatever.
hydroacetylene
9hr ago
Just rig elections.
hydroacetylene
9hr ago
Don’t chew gum.
hydroacetylene
1d ago
The latter are just displaced Slavs.
I'm curious where you got this idea. There's definitely people who believe that the Ashkenazim are descended from Turkic-speaking converts(and the usual rebuttal of 'but Yiddish isn't a Turkic language' leaves out that it's also not a Semitic language- the real issue with this theory is the lack of DNA in the Ashkenazim which can be plausibly attributed to Khazars). It's not implausible to me that some people believe they're genetically heavily German; after all they speak a Germanic language and lived in mostly-German areas for hundreds of years. The mainstream, of course, believes that they're of largely levantine descent with significant southern European admixture, and the evidence for this is genetic studies.
I've never even heard the idea that 'they're just Slavs'.
And also ironically, the Palestinians are also not direct descendants of biblical Hebrews. Levantine Christians probably come closest of any group, but have some Greek admixture.
hydroacetylene
1d ago
Well duh. White ethnocentrism that you would accept as white ethnocentrism is usually pretty opposed to Jews and Judaism. Putting our tribe first is not a realistic expectation. Do Serbian reactionaries support the Ustase?
I suspect that "anyone pale" ethnocentrism actually has disproportionately heavy Jewish support.
hydroacetylene
1d ago
Is the reform Jewish TFR in the US actually any different from the general blue tribe TFR? AFAIK the American blue tribe(to which functionally all reform and secular Jews in the US belong) has a southern-europe tier TFR, America's relatively decent white TFR is mostly driven by the almost exclusively Christian red tribe being at replacement(although not above it). The question becomes "why are secular/reform jews so heavily blue", but I think the answers are pretty obvious; college educated urbanites with liberal religious views are, well, college educated urbanites with liberal religious views.
I think reform jews outside of Israel are just progressive and Israel is a special exception.
hydroacetylene
1d ago
Dandelions are a pioneer species, meaning they’re prolific breeders with high pollution resistance which spread easily and do best in disturbed environments.
Mowed lawns, roadsides, parks- these are disturbed environments exposed to the elements and with some level of pollution. That tends to suppress non-dandelion species more than dandelions, as well as make an inviting environment for dandelions. Where I live it’s common to have unmowed areas where bluebonnets are known to grow; the relative lack of disturbance for part of the year actually results in fewer dandelions.
hydroacetylene
2d ago
Is this disentanglable from the fact that basically everyone has shifted against Biden over one thing or other? It’s understandable to me that Palestine has particular salience for members of your family, but a president widely perceived to be lying about the inflation rate and mismanaging core responsibilities can expect a shift away from him anyway.
hydroacetylene
2d ago
Most don’t care and see it as an essentially aesthetic difference; evangelicals who attempted to evangelize to me usually stopped upon finding out that I was a believing, churchgoing Catholic because from their perspective I was already ‘in’. Evangelicalism is heavily orthopraxic and big tent and in practice sees any conversion experience within trinitarian Christianity as basically as good as any other, and in evangelicalism, it’s the conversion experience that counts.
There are a few Protestants who care, a lot, about converting Catholics. Most of them are not evangelicals- although I suppose many of them are adjacent to evangelicals and I don’t think it’s possible to collect the data on whether confessional Lutherans or oneness Pentecostals are more common.
In Texas specifically there’s a minor phenomenon of white evangelical men marrying Hispanic women and either going to Catholic Church without converting or formally converting for the sake of keeping a family together, because evangelicals will generally go to Catholic services but not Vice versa. Abbott falls into this group and has used this fact in his campaign materials, most famously with the mother-in-law ad.
hydroacetylene
2d ago
Abbott has practical political reasons for supporting Israel, he doesn’t need to be an evangelical for it. Most likely he converted to Catholicism under pressure from his wife(who is an IRL tradcath); he certainly seems less religious than she is and while going to a Christian church is necessary to be a successful republican politician at a high level, that church being evangelical is not; mainstream evangelical theology holds that religious Catholics have no reason to convert because the church is an invisible brotherhood of true believers in Jesus Christ and not a singular institution.
hydroacetylene
2d ago
Yes, you don’t have to believe non-official pronouncements of the pope, or official pronouncements not about faith or morals. But also the usual line about ‘papal infallibility has only been used 4 times in the history of the church, dogmatic beliefs are quite limited’ is also wrong.
The Catholic Church has the extraordinary magisterium, which is always infallible- infallible papal pronouncements and anathematizations by ecumenical councils fall here- and the ordinary magisterium, produced by the normal working of church governance, and which Carries varying levels of weight. A few arguable examples of infallible acts of the ordinary magisterium are Humanae Vitae, canonizations, the condemnation of the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, rulings that women cannot be priests, etc. All of these are arguable as to their infallibility but Catholic theologians universally agree that disagreeing with them and remaining a Catholic is an extremely high bar(except for a minority of theologians who argue that disagreeing with post 1980 canonizations has a much lower bar due to changes in the process. Many of these theologians can point to specific examples of recent canonizations they disagree with, usually Oscar Romero or JoseMaria Escriva) in terms of effort put in and carefulness of the claim.
So in practice there’s some ambiguity as to what’s infallible or not, but general agreement as to what’s a weighty teaching and what can be disagreed with rather more freely(recent doctrines on the death penalty being an example in the latter category). There’s also an understanding that some teachings can be disagreed with, but the disagreement Carries a very high minimum in terms of effort, theological supports, caution with which it is expressed, etc.
hydroacetylene
2d ago
There’s a place for people dealing with life stressors insisting that right wing trad values are a major component of them not shooting themselves or OD’ing or just becoming an alcoholic.
hydroacetylene
2d ago
I think the elephant in the living room is continental vs Anglosphere conservatism- in the Anglosphere conservatism is much more individualist/libertarian, whereas in the continent it tends to be more ‘on your own head be it if you insist on being weird’. One of those can pitch itself better to young voters looking for a leg up.
hydroacetylene
2d ago
Evangelical interests need not factor in.
Abbott is not an evangelical anyways. He’s a Catholic.
hydroacetylene
2d ago
Most of them are zionist to some extent, but I think in (for example) Abbott’s case, it’s more that there’s a very big ideological divide between the right and these progressive student protestors and this is a way to hurt the outgroup to the delight of the base
You’ve hit the nail on the head here. Abbott is as Zionist as is politically necessary, but he’s much more interested in an excuse to wield state power against left wingers, because it makes him look strong to his normie supporters.
hydroacetylene
2d ago
Oh dear.
I encourage her to try the ‘fish are friends, not food, you’re actually a murderer’ line on someone fishing in the park. Just to show her what the actual likely reaction would be.
The pro-life movement has figured out that shrieking ‘you’re a murderer’ is not a successful tactic and they will push new members not to engage in it. The hardcore vegans have apparently not learnt this lesson.
hydroacetylene
3d ago
And yet the conservative elites are mostly Catholic with a few Jews and almost no mainline protestants.
Nullification itself is what is so good for Abbott politically; telling the federal government to beat it makes him look strong and that makes people rally around the flag. His actual culture war policies are a bit more popular in Texas than nationally, but not my that much.
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