AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
Just Another Alt-MSNBC Guy. Find me at Substack: https://alexanderturok.substack.com/
User ID: 3346
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
1mo ago
Yesterday you said you weren't here to passive aggressively side talk about all these low quality populists.
That doesn't sound like me.
smears against anyone who questions the neoliberal consensus
This has got squat to do with "neoliberalism." Musk is basically a neoliberal. The problem is saying false things like the 4% approval rating stat and then doubling down when it's pointed out. It's not like he cited a real poll that, unbeknownst to him, had methodological flaws. The poll was completely made up.
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
1mo ago
Public polls on the other hand, with the exception "low quality" pollsters like Rasmussen, all showed Harris winning. The Harris campaign even went so far as to gaslight the nation claiming Trump was lying about his internal polls as a pretext for election denial.
This isn't true, many had Trump winning.
Hanania actually published an article before the election expressing skepticism of the polls:
https://www.richardhanania.com/p/are-the-polls-too-close-to-be-trusted
The best anti-establishment takes usually come from people like Hanania. They don't come from "anti-establishment" conspiracy theorists who don't believe any data, election results, polls, scientific studies, and just bloviate and make assertions completely untethered to any evidence.
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
1mo ago
We have this same discussion about Richard Spencer.
When you add stuff to your platform that didn't used to be there, some of the people who liked the old platform will decide they don't like the new platform and depart.
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
1mo ago
Elon Musk does not trust 'the experts' do not be like Elon.
It's more that Elon Musk is always tweeting blatantly false stuff like that 4% approval rating stat.
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
1mo ago
Now you have two choices - work with them to explain your arguments and defeat theirs
What do you think I'm doing here? I'm trying to influence the DOGE guys who I suspect are here (or are on ACX or DSL) and the guys who might wind up as GOP state legislators in fifteen years time.
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
1mo ago
Is this the turning point for WW2 revisionism entering the mainstream?
Maybe? I could absolutely see this joining the stolen 2020 election, measles parties, and pedo rings as an accepted part of the conspiracist worldview. And maybe you can even get a few silicon valley billionaires doing the "just asking questions" routine. And ... what then? That coalition is, on average, poorer, less educated, and less skilled at exercising power, and plus they can be really annoying, IMO. Many of the original far-right leaders have become disenchanted at all the low-quality people populism attracts, just look what Jason Kessler (who organized the Charlottesville goon march) said today:
https://x.com/TheMadDimension/status/1898878914199441800
Holocaust revisionism is unlikely to go mainstream among intellectually serious people until "revisionists" can answer some very basic questions like where did all these trainloads of Jews go? Why did 100,000 Dutch Jews seemingly vanish off the face of the Earth? Etc.
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
1mo ago
Paying 200,000 guys 200,000 a year would cost 40 billion. Europe could easily afford that.
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
1mo ago
They could get people to volunteer by paying them. You ever think of that?
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
1mo ago
Reminder - the conspiracy theory was pathologised by the CIA in the 60s to discredit alternative theories about the JFK assassination.
The conspiracist playbook: accuse people and institutions of crimes and then see the inevitable backlash as confirmation of said accusations.
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
1mo ago
I'm thinking that Trump administration isn't "defeating wokeness", just updating it to their funhouse mirror version.
The realignment means the Republican party is now the political home for people with conspiratorial mindsets, whether Left-wing or Right-wing. JD Vance informs us:
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
1mo ago
It seems I'm subject to some weird shadowban.
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
1mo ago
I was satirizing the Online Right's poverty fetish.
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
1mo ago
The future is working at the nail factory, watching the barge go down the river, raising chickens in your backyard, getting taken to court for child support, drinking raw milk, refusing to get vaccinated and various other wholesome and natural behaviors...
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
1mo ago
There's no party that supports all forms of self-defense against biotrash.
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
1mo ago
The point remains that opinions on political issues correlate with one another. Does the candidate who wants to enforce the law against homeless harassers also want to force women to bear their rapists' babies?
Republicans are a lot like Democrats. They think only the popular parts of their platform are what should matter.
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
2mo ago
The San Francisco liberal who walks through feces and endures harassment from junkies every day wants it. He’d rather let it persist than send them to rehab or, god forbid, involve a police officer. This is his self interest.
This ignores the fact that California, like all of America, operates on the two party system. All revealed preference says is that he wants the Dem platform more than the GOP platform. It doesn't mean he wants everything on the Dem platform.
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
2mo ago
I think your argument about vaccines disregards the way in which the culture war eats everything. Being pro/anti-vaccines is not necessarily about vaccines - if the pro-vaccine position wins, that's a step towards the Red Tribe being demoralised and feeling that it is not worth fighting for anything because they will expend effort and lose anyway, and if the anti-vaccine position wins, that's a step towards the mirrored situation.
Sounds like sanewashing.
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
2mo ago
Do you think going to an anti-weed position would lose some of the young men the GOP has recently picked up?
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
2mo ago
Scott Greer has an article about "simping" where he says this about abortion:
Conservatives uphold this attitude towards abortion. They insist the women who get abortion are blameless–it’s all the men’s fault. One pro-life leader recently said legalized abortion is “100%” the fault of men. “It’s a tool they use to cover up their crimes or neglect women & children they should take care of or have convinced some women they need in order to be ‘equal’ to them in the workplace,” exhorted Students for Life 39-year-old president Kristan Hawkins. She ended her post by emphasizing how her husband knows his place. This simp attitude is why Pro-Life Inc. was furious when Trump suggested in 2016 that women who get abortions may face criminal penalties. Only the (presumably male) doctors should be punished if abortion is illegal. This makes as much sense as not punishing a woman who hires a hitman to kill her husband. Such are the wages of simping.
I would ask Greer whether pro-lifers were "simps" throughout America's history, when state laws almost exclusively targeted abortion doctors rather than women:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/04/donald-trump-abortion-wrong-punishing-women/
On the abortion issue, I bet there are a lot of people out there who don't really care about abortion but figure that pro-life is just going back to the situation in 1973. People like Trump, who remembers America in 1973, and figure that the illegality of abortion wasn't a big problem back then and won't be a big problem now. But pro-life in 2025 is not the same as pro-life in 1973. The thing about making hyperbolic, propagandistic statements (abortion is murder!) that are intended to be taken metaphorically is that some among your followers may take them literally. Radical feminists who proclaimed that "gender is a social construct" helped create the transgender movement that would later turn on them. What happens in twenty years when men who today read Scott Greer are sitting in state legislatures and writing bills that would punish women who get abortions with the death penalty?
Are you trying to argue that the “muh trad”-posters in this thread are only secretly jealous of the rich gay jews commissioning the existence of children
Not so much the rich gay Jews but upper-class people in general. They feel perfectly comfortable talking about the gay Jew, it's the blond haired, blue-eyed, highly educated, heterosexual, married WASP that they have an inferiority complex toward. Particularly when he's a Democrat or Mitt Romney-type Republican.
Take George_E_Hale's original comment:
I know at least one woman (white, American) who "had" a child via gestational surrogacy--she is now both divorced and living about 4,800 miles (7,725 km) apart from her daughter. Life's a bitch.
I'm not saying Hale's lying. But you can give a very misleading view of the world by selectively shining a light on some and not others. I don't know of statistics on those who use surrogates specifically, but given that nearly all are affluent I'd assume they have a lower rate of divorce and family instability than the general population. If you relied entirely on certain dissident right personalities, you'd get a very warped view of which classes have the most stable families in America. I don't think it's a coincidence that the opposition to assisted reproductive technology has grown at the same time that opposition to having kids out of wedlock has declined and at the same time that the GOP has increasingly become a political home for low-income, less-educated whites.
A few months ago, this story was going around Twitter about women using fertility treatments to conceive alone:
Twitter trads were saying muh brave new world, blah blah blah. Because that's their worldview, bad things come from affluent urban people in big cities working in universities and applying technology to the human body, doing all this evil unethical stuff because they stopped reading the Bible. While I thought "hey, wait a second, this idea of women raising children without fathers is not new. We're up to 40% of children born out of wedlock, disproportionately among the poor and non-white. Why aren't you talking about that?"
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
2mo ago
Especially given that it's not like Christians are being at all successful in getting rid of it.
Reminded me of this:
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
2mo ago
That reply is understandable, if seculars are going to take away Christians' rights, Christians are going to try and preemptively suppress seculars to prevent that. And likewise seculars will point to this and say, "look, this is why we need to suppress Christians before they suppress us." Might there be some way that these two groups can get along, say, come to an agreement not to force their morality on one another? And yes, this will mean woke seculars, who I despise just as much as Bible thumpers, will stop trying to use anti-discrimination law to violate the free association rights of their enemies.
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
2mo ago
Further, it's not like everyone will stop if you just ask nicely. You're going to have to kill a bunch of people. What benefit do you have that's worth killing a bunch of productive citizens?
This is correct. You should always consider that the people you try to repress might retaliate against you violently. Religious fundamentalists should likewise consider this before trying to force their religious morality on secular people. Some people here have said that physicians in Texas are refusing to treat pregnant women as part of some pro-choice political agenda. I doubt this, but if it's true I say, what'd you expect? You think they're demonic, well, the demonic people don't feel like giving you medical treatment.
AlexanderTurok
Alt-MSNBC
2mo ago
motherhood is a biological reality
This is correct. And Corvos would say that the person who shows up on a DNA test as the child's mother, and who raised him for eighteen years, isn't really his mother in favor of the surrogate. It's a bizarre attempt to retcon the English language in the service of the Online Right's pregnancy fetish.
Iraq was a failure of the establishment and also a failure of the anti-establishment. It was supported by a large majority of rural, working-class, no college degree, salt of the Earth white people. The modern Right is incapable of telling those people they are wrong on any issue, so we know what they'd do if the war happened today.
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