Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
No bio...
User ID: 297
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
11mo ago
Less antagonism. You've been warned about this repeatedly. Next time is going to catch you a ban.
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
11mo ago
I don't think abandoning his old persona and pretending to be someone else is good advice. He will inevitably be doxxed/discovered and then it will just add another layer of accusations of bad faith and deceptiveness.
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
11mo ago
Yes, I realize that you feel yours are important and valid and other peoples are beneath acknowledgement, but this is part of why you are getting pushback from people with longer memories of your past conduct.
Though he is getting pushback on something completely unrelated to the current post, purely because people are still holding grudges. I mean, this isn't the first time Trace has posted something since the whole LoTT affair, and while people sometimes bring it up (as people do - a lot of people here hold grudges against a lot of other posters), most people don't feel a need to snigger "Hey, what about that time you pranked LibsOfTikTok?" every time he posts.
@HRSCCK (an obvious alt spun up for such shit-stirring) started this with an unnecessary dig. When even @gattsuru tells you you're being petty, that's something.
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
11mo ago
Dude, I'm glad @netstack already gave you your warning.
You're far more public than me, and you get less shit here than I do just by virtue of being a mod on the "wrong side." It genuinely concerns me that someone who's gone so public and is so clearly staking out a niche in the Culture Wars has such a thin skin. I agree with almost everything you say about your detractors, and I sympathize with your earnest attempts to be sincere and engage in good faith and be perceived as engaging in good faith, but even if you hadn't ever pranked LibsOfTikTok (which you may recall, at the time even I said had a bad look), you'd still be getting shat on for the Schism, for being so earnest, for being on the "wrong side," for a bunch of things. The miserable scolds are always going to grouse bitterly at you. For your own peace of mind and future career as a semi-public figure, get used to it and learn not to so easily be made to show that they're getting to you.
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
11mo ago
If there is a fair criticism in there somewhere along the lines of "Who are you to be criticizing David Gerard when you do the same thing?" I haven't really seen it. All I am seeing it "Oh, nice story, by the way, fuck you for that time you pranked Libs of TikTok." I mean, speaking of who?whom?, you'd gushing all over this story except that you apparently hate Trace more than you hate David Gerard.
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
11mo ago
People who convert generally don't pretend to be someone else and abandon their previous identity. Even if Trace apologized for pranking LoTT (which, by the way, I agree was a low point, but seriously y'all need to get over it, it's not like LoTT has ever been doing any kind of quality or good faith "journalism") and disappeared, if he reappeared as Earnest McGee, brand new social media account talking about culture war topics, and then was discovered to be TracingWoodgrains, I think you and his other detractors would be the first to gleefully drag him. You would not grant him absolution and forgiveness.
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
11mo ago
Why do you believe Woodgrains pushback is based on things completely unrelated to the current post?
Bluntly, because who, whom? Trace made a fool of someone his detractors approve of because she mocks people they hate. And while I don't approve of what he did (and I said so at the time), let's be real here - pranking a noted Internet bombthrower whose entire schtick is nutpicking people on TikTok to point and laugh at (and try to get fired) is not the same as what David Gerard is accused of doing over the course of years. You act like this was some great moral failing instead of an ill-considered Opie & Anthony-level stunt.
As for being a critic of this community, yeah, and we get criticized from the opposite direction by the past denizens of that other great abandoned wasteland of Motte expats, CWR. Some of whom crawled back here and continue to lob the same whining complaints. This is not the first time Trace has criticized this community and talked about his complicated relationship with it, but I don't think what he's said is at all comparable to David Gerard's active hostility and malice.
I agree with you that Trace should stop flouncing, and grow a thicker skin.
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
11mo ago
Emphasis on fair. I see the attempts at equivalences. I don't find them convincing. He's certainly being accused of hypocrisy, but nothing he's done is akin to what David Gerard is accused of doing.
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
11mo ago
Not having read your article, and in isolation of whether or not this is actually a "problem", per se, this seems like a bad-faith article.
I'm not going to mod this because people can have shitty opinions, but "I haven't read your article but I am going to pass judgment on it being bad faith" is really on the border of obnoxiously low effort. On the subject of what the Motte is supposed to be and what it is becoming, we want it to be a place where people issue considered opinions after taking in the available evidence (including, you know, at least reading what you are commenting on), not just a place where people drop hot takes based on vibes and how they feel about the poster or the subject.
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
11mo ago
I think the consensus view here is that people should be treated specially for the sole reason of being white instead of any personal qualifications.
Otherwise, would you agree that the Motte's seeming consensus against even skilled immigration (well, I get dogpiled pretty hard whenever I try posting in support of it at least) is pretty anti-meritocratic?
First of all, I think you are mistaking "A handful of people with very strongly held and loudly and frequently voiced views" with "consensus opinion." I do not agree that the consensus view of the Motte is white nationalism and extreme nativism, and I don't think even the average white nationalist would agree with you that they'd rather have a white doctor than a more competent non-white doctor. Far be for me to speak for wignats, but one of the few remaining valuable aspects of this place is actually understanding how people whose views I despise really think, rather than assuming a mustache-twirling caricature of how they think.
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
11mo ago
"What is wrong with you?" disingenuously adds a moral and emotional valence to my statement that was absolutely not there. My position is more or less what @ControlsFreak stated, and what I said very plainly: your objections to what TracingWoodgrains did to LoTT (and lack of objection to what he did to David Gerard) are 100% conflict theory and 0% principled objection.
@Jiro is, of course, wrong and misses the point. No one here has objected to Trace doing a piece on David Gerard because pretty much no one here likes David Gerard and if anyone but Trace had done the piece, they'd be blowing it up with AAQCs. But, like you, they hate Trace (for being a gay furry who started the Schism and once pranked LoTT) more than they hate David Gerard (who's a more remote figure to most people here).
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
11mo ago
You keep calling it "information warfare" precisely because LoTT is on your side (because she makes fun of people you hate), and therefore a prank that made her look stupid is viewed by you as enemy action for the purposes of discrediting your partisans, as opposed to making someone who plays fast and loose with accusations and whose whole game is Internet warfare look foolish. If Trace had done something similar to someone you consider an enemy, you'd have considered it a well-deserved pantsing.
I agree that Trace probably did target LoTT because she is not on his side, but I completely disagree that pranking a shitposting account like LoTT is at all equivalent to the years long activities of Gerard, or Trace's reporting on them. What exactly is your accusation here - that what he says about Gerard cannot be trusted because he's a partisan? That he's only reporting on Gerard for purposes of "information warfare" (against whom)?
All the claims of LoTT being unfairly "stung," equivalent to the police putting out a box saying "Free candy" and then arresting people for shoplifting, are transparently specious.
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
11mo ago
Well, to quote whining: luckily it's for each of us to determine fairness
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
11mo ago
Okay, I accept that under your definition of information war, Trace conducted "information war" against LoTT. I remain largely indifferent to this (though, once again, I did tell him at the time that I thought it was kind of a cheap stunt - but I have never been fond of this sort of internet pranking in general), because LoTT is such a crappy, bad faith source that it's very hard for me to sympathize with a nutpicking outrage farmer who got taken in by a story too juicy for her to apply some basic skepticism.
I understand that you see it as more serious - you've written a lot about how you think the sort of people LoTT regularly makes fun of are a direct threat to your family and way of life. Fair enough. But it still seems like very selective outrage to go off on him for doing a thorough, well researched article on a guy who's been a dedicated bad faith "information warrior" for years, just because he once did a hit piece on LoTT. That you see him as one of the enemy agents trying to destroy your life is frustrating to me in the same way that all pure conflict theorists are frustrating to me.
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
11mo ago
I would be very happy to be proven wrong here---for example, do you have examples of anti-skilled immigration posts that aren't the caricature of "we want to do this because it's important to us that the US stays more white"?
I'm not one of those people who saves links of past posts to refer to in the future, but the topic of skilled immigration has come up before, and there have been people who are against it on the basis that it lowers the market value of skilled labor for citizens. Agree with this or not, it is not just about "keeping America more white."
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
11mo ago
We've been pretty lenient with people who want to pile on Trace - he kind of invited it with his own evident willingness to wade in for one last hurrah.
However, this is over the line, just pure sneering with no point to it other than that. And given your record of making it clear you are just here to sneer, you can go away for four days.
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
11mo ago
You know, this is actually an interesting moral point that leftists usually hammer into mush with their usual lack of nuance and subtlety, what with "words are violence, silence is violence, everything is violence," etc. but... hypothetically, let's say I'm your neighbor, and I'm black, and I become aware of your views. I know you personally are probably never going to take any action against me. You'll be a nice, respectful, and orderly neighbor. We'll get along, and you might even loan me your drill or ask me to watch your cats and stuff, like a good neighbor.
But I know that should the state suddenly go full Jim Crow II and start rounding up me and mine in trucks, you not only won't raise a peep in protest, you will approve. That you are, in fact, quietly working towards that happening, even if it's only very abstractly. Maybe you will feel a teensy bit bad about it happening to me and my family, but not bad enough to protest or even think it's wrong.
Do you see how in that situation, I might not actually consider you a great neighbor, no matter how pleasant you are to my face?
I am not trying to pick on you here - I honestly find you kind of interesting (and yeah, in person I probably would find you pleasant and easy to get along with - though, granted, I am not black), the self-admitted soy blue triber who's gone full wignat. But I have to admit there is something I find deeply unpleasant about your repeated instance that you are a kind and gentle soul who'd never harm a fly. No, you just want the state and men with less scruples to do the dirty work for you. I'm really trying to avoid Nazi metaphors here, but they do spring to mind. No, I do not believe that wanting to change things via force requires that you be willing and able to execute that violence yourself, but I must admit, the men who at least are open about how much they'd enjoy being the (literal) whip hand strike me as more honest (including to themselves). I may find them disgusting also, but for an entirely different reason.
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
11mo ago
Then since you didn't get the point the first time, take another three days off.
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
11mo ago
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
11mo ago
Honestly, you're just coming off here like a pussy who isn't fit for public discourse despite clearly wanting to be involved with it. And the Internet smells pussy like sharks smell blood
Okay, I know you really want to call him a pussy, and you did your best to do that without saying "You're a pussy," but you didn't do a good enough job. This is too antagonistic and you know it.
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
11mo ago
Methinks you and Trace are both a little guilty of performatively shouting I DON'T CARE I DON'T CARE SO HARD CAN YOU SEE HOW MUCH I DON'T CARE MOFO?!
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
11mo ago
Well, @Hoffmeister25 has explicitly stated that he wants racial segregation and ethno-states. Which he would like to be accomplished peacefully, but when pressed, he admits that probably won't happen which leaves only literally "shipping people off" or worse on the table. You're right that that specific issue wasn't part of the homeless thread, but it is relevant to the "Why would you think I'm a bad neighbor just because I secretly believe you should be forcibly relocated?" question. Hence my question: if you are nice to my face but I know that you are working on a political project to disenfranchise me, am I justified in considering you a bad neighbor?
I actually share your (and his) "concerns" about black behavior and black culture. I am not willing to go over to the wignat side; I know too many black people who clearly do not match their hostile image, and I do not believe that every decent black person I know is some fraction-of-a-percent outlier. But while I personally wouldn't be unwilling to hang out and chat with Hoffmeister in meatspace, I can understand why a black person, knowing what Hoffmeister believes, might balk at it (though some probably would be willing to engage civilly with him, and props to them).
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
11mo ago
This is like saying "If 'just stop doing drugs' were useful advice, there would be no drug addicts." Just stop doing drugs is the correct answer. That doesn't mean it's easy, or that a drug addict can "just" choose to do that without great effort and support.
It's 100% true that "Just exercise (and improve your diet)" is the correct answer. It's also 100% true that this is actually very hard and most people don't do it, because exercise is uncomfortable and boring and we live in a world of superstimuli and abundant high-calorie, low quality foods.
No, it's not as simple as "fat people lack willpower." Just like it's not as simple as "alcoholics lack willpower." This is literally true, but most people lack the willpower to overcome something like an addiction or the incredible pull of comfortable, sedentary living and infinite snacks over deprivation and effort.
Maybe we might find something biological that makes some people more successful at dieting and exercise than others, and maybe some people do have metabolic conditions that make them more prone to obesity. But ultimately, the answer is that what they need to do is actually very simple but very difficult, hence most people don't.
Amadan
Enjoying my short-lived victory
11mo ago
This is the view that I disagree with. It strikes me as a just so story. If you succeed in exercising, you were able to do the very hard thing because of your implied moral superiority; if you weren’t, you had to try harder, but you could have.
I do not assert moral superiority and I do not think people who muster the will to exercise and lose weight are morally superior to those who don't. That's all projection on your part.
Willpower is probably another nature/nurture combination, and the will to lose weight specifically probably comes from a combination of inherent ability to stick to a goal, and the level of your motivation to accomplish that goal. I am not morally impugning fat people (though I admit feeling a great deal of disdain for the "fat acceptance" movement and HAES, which I think is 90% cope). I am saying that the solution is the obvious one, we understand the science pretty well, and just so stories like Set Point Theory and "microbiomes that make you want to be more sedentary" are not well-supported scientifically.
But maybe I’m misunderstanding what you are saying. “ultimately, the answer is that what they need to do is actually very simple but very difficult, hence most people don't”, this to me implies a universality in how difficult exercise is, but I seriously doubt that’s the case.
Of course exercise is more difficult for some people than for others. People's bodies undoubtedly affect how enjoyable exercise is and how much aptitude they have for it. People have different metabolisms. And people enjoy different things. There are people who genuinely enjoy exercise; most don't. For fat people in particular, exercise is particularly grueling because they get tired more easily and they probably do experience more pain. Most people who are out of shape find exercising painful (because your body will protest when forced to do things it isn't accustomed to doing) and fat adds extra weight and fatigue to that. All of this is true, and none of this contradicts what I'm saying.
I used to be obese. Now I am slightly overweight (according to my BMI) though I don't look particularly overweight. I took it off with diet and exercise. I don't think I'm a paragon of virtue or willpower; I just reached a point where being fat sucked more than exercise did. Now my weight has remained steady for years (goes up a bit when I get lazy and snack more, goes down a bit when I am more disciplined). Those aren't moral judgments; they are just facts. I exercise regularly despite not particularly enjoying it, because I enjoy the feeling of having exercised, and the fact that I know I feel much better when I exercise regularly than when I don't. (I also do mostly weights and not enough cardio, even though I know I should do more cardio, because I don't like cardio. So obviously, my willpower and ability to do what I know I should be doing is not perfect.) I had back pain and shortness of breath that disappeared after I lost the weight. I am in better health than people much younger than me, just because I'm not fat. This all speaks to my motivation; I could very easily have taken another path (to just accepting that I'm going to be fat, and eating whatever I want) and I very nearly did. I can't tell you why I chose A over B, but I don't think it's because my Willpower stat is inherently higher. I do think my experience is (broadly but not universally) generalizeable; people can choose to do the thing. I don't particularly judge people who don't, because I know it's hard and not fun. But I also know it is a choice.
Pretty sure it was basically that right wingers were sharing it around as a good anti-woke rant, and Freddie was dismayed that his enemies were using his words as ammunition against leftists (even leftists he himself was attacking).
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