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Amadan

Letting the hate flow through me

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joined 2022 September 05 00:23:21 UTC
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Amadan


								

								

								
								
									
								
								
								
								

								
							
					
 
				


				
Letting the hate flow through me

				
				
				

				

					9 followers  

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					joined 2022 September 05 00:23:21 UTC
				


				
					

					
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				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 8, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
You and @Magusoflight - knock it off. This thread has descended into real bottom-tier gotchas and "edginess."


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 8, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
If you know someone is trying to bait you into this kind of response, don't take the bait.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 8, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Is this what you mean by "Interesting, intelligent people being banned for petty rule violations"?


You are filling the mod queue with these obnoxious attempts to bait people. I'm sure in your own mind you're a brilliant debater pwning the chuds. I am not impressed.


I'm not going to permaban you. I'm going to ban you for two days. In your own words: "Do better."


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 8, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Be less antagonistic.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 8, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Thank you for your input.


Be less antagonistic.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 8, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


You’re also the idiot




Even if you're responding to someone being antagonistic, do not reply with personal attacks.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 8, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


This place is a hollow husk of its former self.




We're so sorry we fail to meet your expectations. But be less antagonistic.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 8, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


What sticks in my craw about pearl-clutching from conservatives over less-than-decorous reactions to Kirk's death is how one-sided it is.




I'm not a conservative and I'm not clutching my pearls. I am horrified and disgusted because "less-than-decorous" is an understatement. I do not recall seeing this kind of reaction on this scale, ever. I don't disagree that MAGAs have cultivated an anti-empathy, pro-cruelty attitude towards their enemies, but I haven't seen a major outbreak of tribal celebration over an ideological opponent being murdered in cold blood like this in my lifetime.


I'm old enough to remember when John Hinckley shot Ronald Reagan, and there was conservative pearl-clutching over reports of cheering at a few schools. Those were isolated incidents. This is different. I fortunately do not have any personal friends or family members who are literally celebrating, but they are posting lots of "reminders" about how horrible and harmful Charlie Kirk was. It's impossible not to read the subtext that they think he kind of deserved it even if they don't approve of murder on principle.


I see conservatives seeing this and realizing that even normie liberals think they kind of deserve to die, or at least if they did die, you shouldn't feel sorry for them. That's you, taking that position.


I don't doubt if someone shoots Rachel Maddow or Hassan Piker or whoever the fuck is the leftie counterpart to Charlie Kirk now, rightists will go into full grave-dancing mode, because that's the new norm.


Thanks a lot.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 8, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Yes, I misunderstood what you were asking for. The mods discussed it and we'd prefer you not start a new megathread since there is already a big thread on the topic right now.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 8, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Sure, but if you want to start a thread about mod policies, it would be better to put it in the Small Questions thread than the CW thread.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 8, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


Everything is incredibly sad right now.




Yes, it is. You know what? I was probably more hostile than I needed to be, and I'm sorry for that. We've been getting a lot of shit thrown at us lately and the threads this week have been terrible. But I should still have tried to write that in a less antagonistic manner. I apologize.


That said- the point stands. Our rule against posting hot takes on breaking news is not because we're trying to make people jump through unreasonable hoops or prevent people from talking about breaking news. It's because we want to see effortposts, not people trying to emulate Twitter with who can get the fastest zinger out there. It really is not unreasonable to ask you, if you want to talk about the latest breaking news, to put a few minutes thought into what you want to say about it and not just copy-paste a link and an excerpt, which looks very much like someone who is just eager to have the first top-level thread on the subject.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 8, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
From right wing outlets, yes, I see a lot of lionizing about what a great guy he was. From left wing outlets, barely-restrained grave dancing following throat-clearing about how murder is bad. Mostly what I see from mainstream news is "This is awful and says something about politics/free speech/gun control in America right now" followed by a lot of throat-clearing about how Kirk was "controversial."


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 8, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


Once again, the rules of this site are extremely tiresome at times.




Tough.




I know you're sick of reading this same complaint, and I'm sorry for that.




Yes we are, and no you're not.




But this news was going to get posted here one way or another,




Yes. There are good and acceptable ways to post it that require a minimal amount of effort, and there are bad and unacceptable ways to post it because someone wants to be First!!!




and forcing people to jump through hoops to talk about current events while they're happening right now is bad.




No, it is not.


We've explained why the rule exists. We've explained why you can't do what you want to do. You can accept this or not.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 8, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
This is exactly the kind of disingenuous argumentation I'm talking about.


Your wording is very precise, yet weaselly: "a high up political figure." It implies much but says nothing. Because "high up political figure" implies a politician, or a government official, or at least someone with major influence over the government. But Charlie Kirk was mostly known for debating college students on YouTube and getting out the vote for Donald Trump. Sure, that makes him a public figure with some political influence, but he wasn't the chair of the Republican Party. He was a commentator. A gadfly. That's not what you meant when you tried to equate him with, say, a Hezballah commander or an Iranian state official.


It is a legitimate moral argument to make that the US or Israel should not target the latter with drone strikes. We can debate that. We can disagree about that. But show me the US assassinating a YouTuber.


So once again, let's be clear here: you are arguing that any US public figure, like, say, Ben Shapiro or Ezra Klein, would be legitimate targets because of US policies in the Middle East?


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 8, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Is your position that the US doesn't follow international rules of war and therefore all US citizens are legitimate targets of violence anywhere?


If so, I think that's a really stupid and immoral position to hold, but it's internally consistent. That said, you still can't argue that your enemies are being inconsistent because they don't agree with you.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 8, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
I have long been in disagreement with @FCfromSSC about this, and I tend to agree with your rebuttal in general. However, we really do seem to be moving apart in ways that at least could eventually end in the sort of worst-case scenario he is predicting. Your argument that "This will be forgotten in a few months, this incident is not actually going to set anything off" is the sort of thing that's true until it's not. This incident probably won't be the one that triggers a civil war. The next one probably won't be. The US is stable enough that we can have many, many such incidents accumulate and fade into the news cycle. But no one can predict the exact confluence of circumstances that will make that one time be the one that does it. How confident are you, really, that the Next Big Thing has a zero percent chance of being the torch that lights everything on fire?


I still don't think we're going to see a violent Red/Blue civil war in my lifetime. Or more accurately, I hope we don't, but I actually don't think it's likely. But I admit my priors have updated to it being less unlikely than I once thought.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 8, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
I'm regularly dismayed at the low quality of thinking displayed on topics like this. From you, from leftists in my feed, from general discourse. This sort of absurd equivalence is a case in point. You can absolutely believe any combination of "Assassinating people is good/bad" + "Killing people with drones is good/bad" without conflict. It all depends on the premises you start with. And you don't have to agree with any of those premises, but what you are doing is what a lot of the low-reflection normies do, which is pretend that everyone shares their premises, point out that the beliefs of other people do not match those premises, and then scream "Aha! Hypocrite!"


It is not hypocritical to believe something based on premises different from yours. It may be wrong, and you can absolutely make an argument that your position is moral and someone else's position is immoral. But that doesn't mean their beliefs are inconsistent.


So "Assassination versus drone strikes." The pro-drone strike "political class" thinks drone strikes are okay because they believe drone strikes are being used for a legitimate war purpose against military targets. If some civilians die, that is unfortunate collateral damage. Again (I will say this sloooowly): you don't have to agree with that. But that's the defense of drone strikes, and it doesn't make "Therefore they should be okay with public assassinations" some kind of gotcha. If you want to make that argument connect you have to make an argument that there is no moral distinction between drone strikes in a conflict zone (I say "conflict zone" and not "war zone" because a more sophisticated argument could actually present arguments for why some of these conflict zones should not be legitimate zones for military actions) and shooting people on college campuses with a rifle. It is an argument you can make! You could argue it from pacifism, or from the perspective that politics is war by other means, or any number of other angles that actually put a meaningful analysis behind "Why is shooting your enemy on a college campus worse than drone-striking him in a combat zone?" Or "How do we distinguish between combatants and non-combatants?"


But somehow I don't think that is actually your argument.


It is disingenuous to argue "They believe killing in one situation is right, therefore they cannot object to killing in any situation." It's like arguing "You think killing in self-defense is moral, therefore murder should be moral." Or conversely, "If murder is immoral, then capital punishment is immoral." The latter is absolutely something many people believe, but they are disingenuous when they claim pro-death penalty people are pro-murder, because pro-death penalty people do not agree with them about what constitutes murder.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 8, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


P.S. mild suspicion of Hlynka resurgence




Good eye.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 8, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Reduce your antagonism.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 8, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
What is the purpose of this question? If he didn't post on these topics on reddit at the time, does that mean he's a hypocrite and his post is invalid?


If so, state that directly rather than asking passive-aggressive "gotcha" questions.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 8, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Who is "they"?


One of the stated purposes of this place is for testing your shady thinking so if you want to concoct conspiracy theories and throw them against the wall to see if they stick, that's allowed, but you should put more effort into making them plausible enough to be worth debating. There's a difference between "testing your thinking" and "posting shower thoughts." And say what you mean directly.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 8, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
You know, I will go against the grain here and say I don't think using an AI to vet your posts is necessarily a bad thing. Especially if you're literally unable to tell in the heat of the moment that an invective-filled response will read as "heated," having an AI on your shoulder to say "Hey there bub, might want to dial that down" is, IMO, a very valid use case for AIs.


That said, having played with LLMs a lot, if you want it to tell you whether or not you are being "lucid" or "unreasonable," you really do need to have some very careful prompting techniques, because if you ask Grok or ChatGPT something like "Please read this post and tell me if I'm being calm and reasonable," the default response will tend to be validation and affirmation: it's not impossible to get an LLM to actually criticize or challenge you, but it's difficult to get something that really approximates "honest and objective feedback."


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 8, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Lots of fawning identity-related media coverage despite a marked lack of sales numbers makes Felker-Martin the sort of "stunt-casting" writer who generates buzz about an equally C-list title.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 8, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
In related but "lighter" news (if such can be said): y'all remember Gretchen Felker-Martin, the transwoman who wrote that post-apocalyptic zombie novel in which all men (technically anyone with testosterone) turn into monsters and there's a throw-away line about JK Rowling being burned alive in her mansion? Felker-Martin has in the past publicly advocated killing people such as JK Rowling and Jesse Singhal, and recently went on a rant about Brandon Sanderson and how he shouldn't be "tolerated" in the SFF community (because he's a Mormon, therefore he is funding "conversion camps").


So anyway, as I pointed out recently, C-list writers like Felker-Martin often get a gig writing superhero comics, and Felker-Martin was writing a new series for DC about Red Hood (a vigilante anti-hero who used to be one of the Robins). It got cancelled after one issue. Guess why?


Very on-brand. Bluesky account is now suspended. I am not sure this represents a "vibe shift" (DC and Marvel would always be likely to fire a writer who openly cheers an assassination) but it is interesting how quickly Felker-Martin got "cancelled."


By the way, @gattsuru, I guess this is where I should clear my throat and say "Political violence is bad and I condemn the killing of Charlie Kirk"?


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of September 8, 2025
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Yes, the alternative to calming down and ceasing your belligerence is a timeout. That is always the alternative.


I do not think you are unhinged. I think you're angry and you're angry-posting.  You may think your replies are perfectly lucid and even-tempered. They are not. I'm really trying to cut people some slack right now, but I'm running out of slack.