ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
No bio...
User ID: 626
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
8hr ago
I'm not comparing you to someone who claims that western society is good, because it provides abundance, even if that means you have to put in effort to not grow fat, or regulate the food industry.
I'm comparing you to the HAES / Lizzo's beuty enjoyers / fitness is fascism people. People who see fatness itself as liberation from oppressive forces like beuty standards, healthy diets and exercise.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
9hr ago
This is like framing America's obesity epidemic as "liberation". Technically correct, I suppose.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
9hr ago
It's about as confusing as a person wanting to get in shape, instead of being content to fill themselves up with junk food and whatching their health deteriorate. It would be nature taking it's course too, wouldn't it?
As for it sounding socialisty, there aren't that many devoted libertarians out there.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
16hr ago
By looking at the reaction to a given proposal. "We should favor coping strategies to deal with body image issues, rather just prescribing hormones" would be met with a huge amount of hostility, which is not indicative of uncertainty.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
16hr ago
Oh no... did I forget to add "...on this issue"? Or were you expecting people to be logically consistent?
The claim itself is easily defensible, I just linked you to a source where the "top experts" talk about everything from transitioning non-dysphorics to schizophrenics.
To be fair, I think that bodily autonomy generally makes a good Schelling point. There are certainly limits, few would argue that the psychotic who is stabbing himself to kill the spiders crawling inside his skin should get bodily autonomy,
Yes, well, few as they may be, there seems to be a higher concentration of them in the biggest international association concerned with transgender health.
but get really upset with a mother who does a better job of protecting her kid from chemicals, even though death from oxygen deprivation is the natural fate of a human almost anywhere in the observable universe.
The majority of the observable universe being the cold vacuum of space, you're quite correct, but the one bit of the universe where humans are typically seen, depriving them of oxygen does usually require some form of intervention. If you want a real gotcha you can say they would be upset at refusing a blood transfusion or a dialysis machine, though even there the Natural Law enjoyers have arguments for why they are ok with that, and not other things.
Failure to prevent the onset of puberty is not meaningfully different from purposefully inducing puberty
Puberty is a necessary process for development of not just all humans, not just all primates, not even only of all mammals, but practically every animal observable to the naked eye, that anyone will ever run into. Without it it, you lose access to one of the core functions of your body. You can say that it might be worth it under specific circumstances, bot it's loony say they're the same.
just like killing a patient by turning off their ventilator is not meaningfully different from killing them through the injection of pentobabitone.
The ventilator itself is an active intervention, while puberty is, again, the process of developing a core function of one's healthy body, making the analogy somewhat stilted.
Naturally, that does not mean that any intervention is good, just that there are no moral shortcuts which save you from looking at the outcomes.
This is where most utilitarians cheat. It's not enough to look at the outcomes, you need a moral framework to judge those outcomes by.
On the object level, I do not have a race in the "gender interventions in minors" topic
I got used to the "no dog in this fight" folks, but I'd imagine you'd have somethimg to say about your "real world" model of mental health not really reflecting reality because of this issue.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1d ago
In the real world, the mental health services do not work like that. Feel free to visit a psychiatric hospital sometimes and check.
There were people who checked and the results look a lot closer to his model than what you call "the real world".
On what basis do you jump to "fantasy"?
The insane amount of institutional power that they wield, for one.
it can hardly be simultaneously true, as right-wingers typically believe, that trans women naturally evoke revulsion, and that any adverse social consequences that they experience are imaginary.
a) If this place is such a massive rightwing echo-chamber, and since trans issues are often discussed here, you should have no problem linking a few examples of this, no? Well damn, looks like they showed up unprompted.
b) I don't see a reason for why these things can't be true, "revulsion" does not mean you won't be treated professionally in the public.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1d ago
The official, top expert approved line is "bodily autonomy above all else". It doesn't matter if you want to be male one day, and female the other, thus showing there is no single natural state you're aiming toward, it doesn't matter if you have gender dysphoria, thus showing there could be anything unnatural about your current state to begin with, hell, it doesn't matter to them if you are of sound mind. All that maters is that you want to do it in the moment, they believe it's a part of self-expression , and you should be able to change your body the way you change clothes.
"Gender affirming care" is the proper terminology precisely because they wanted to separate the treatment from the questions of the body and what is natural to it, "gender" is a social construct after all.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1d ago
I'm not seeing it. For one, I've never heard anyone argue fornthe pro-trans position in those terms, so even if such people exist, they're a tiny minority.
Even purely theoretically the position doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I could understand it with regards to someone like Imane Khelif, who's one sex, but due to a development disorder looks more like the other. You could then say that by adjusting his body to be more male, you're bringing it closer to it's natural form.
With Eliot Page, where you have someone with a perfectly healthy and normal female body, but try to change it to be more male, how is that bringing it closer to the natural form?
I kinda don't believe in utilitarians, they tend to use "utility" to cover up their actual values. For example, I'd say that a utilitarian would recommenend improvimg the diagnostic process so that there's less people detransitioning for "identity evolutions" reasons (they hurt their health only to end up where they would have been anyway, without thebmedical interventions), but another utilitarian can just as easily say "well, if they don't regret it, have they *reaaaaally* lost any utils?". Similarly there aren't really utilitarian reasons for favoring hormones and surgeries, over coping strategies to deal with body image / identity issues.
The actual conflict is between Natural Law people and transhumanists.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
2d ago
propose a budget that sucks
you know other side must vote for your budget, refuse to make it not suck, refuse to negotiate
Oh sweet, so all the previous shutdowns are retroactively the Democrats' fault now.
Also don't pretend like if President Kamala Harris was trying to pass the "trans surgery bonanza budget" you'd be saying that the Republicans should suck it up and just vote with the Dems to pass it
I mean, in either case I'd be un favor of them doing what they think is necessary, and taking responsibility for it. If the Dems think this is worth shutting down the government over, it's their choice, I just want them to own it.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
2d ago
Be the change you want to see. Nothing wrong with either of these topics, but they're hardly groundbreaking conversations, we've had them many times before.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
2d ago
They're allowed, his point is that it should be the only option, if you want to do a filibuster.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
3d ago
Yeah, I also saw a lot of trans commentary. It makes sense for the international press to ignore it, of the two issues this is less consequential - "oh no, a UK media outlet was dishonest in it's coverage about the elections in another contry!". Bias about the trans issue is relevant to other countries, because the same kind of shenanigans are going on throughout the west, so bringing up what the BBC did about it would cause normies to start asking the wrong sort of questions.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
3d ago
Strange that a man who can be accused of at most trying and failing to correct the ship, resigns.
I'm pretty sure he could also be accused of not even trying, perhaps even outright abating. Why should we assume he was trying to right the ship based on nothing but which party he's associated with?
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
4d ago
If the “bait” is so fine grained that you need a fifty page analysis about it whether or not it’s bait,
Whatever gave you that idea? Literally everything he posts in top level is bait. Watson was a subject of past culture war debate, and the rat-sphere was sympathetic to him, so he attacked him because he wanted to own the chuds. It's as simple as that. If you think that's uncharitable, then the fact that he refuses to adress responses that show he's just plain wrong, proves it.
Meanwhile the discussion gets slower and more sclerotic every week and there are fewer and fewer top level posts.
I'm not here to serve as entertainment. Letting people rile others up for shits and giggles, because you find the conversations "sclerotic" would just shit this place up. You can literlly just go on over to rdrama if you're so bored.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
4d ago
My point was that given the ancient Greeks were complaining that their youth sucked, and I've now seen two generations of older people say their youth sucked (boomers/Gen X > millenials & everyone > Gen Z), it seems very likely that every generation likes to think the ones after them suck.
I can't help but notice that we aren't currently living under the hegemony of Greece.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
4d ago
I did see it, I mean I noticed no precedent of the "come on, it's just a tiny percentage" people having had their own tiny percentage they visibly cared about a lot.
Wait, so you're not even arguing for the argument that "It is quite fair to be livid about similarly miniscule numbers" , you're just hypocrisy-policing? If that's what you're going for, are you telling me you never saw anyone being bothered about school shootings?
First, I don't recall you agreeing with me when it was about the tiny number of transed kids.
Uh... surely you must have seen one of my many top-level comments on the subject. If anything I don't remember you saying all that much about it.
Second, you appear to be one of the three principled autistically-consistent-argument-appliers among seven zillion culture warriors, so unilateral disarmament is not in my interest.
Well, if you're just pursuing your interest, why not say that from the top, instead of acting like you're bothered by a violation of a principle?
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
4d ago
What's interesting about posting try-hard "provocative" top level posts, and ignoring literally everyone who points that out several of the premises are wrong?
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
6d ago
I didn't have a precedent to refer to before.
How exactly did you run into this forum being absolutely livid about the small number of kids being transed without seeing the "come on, it's just a tiny percentage of people affected"?
Only if it actually becomes a commonplace bipartisan argument.
I literally just agreed with you, what more do you want?
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
6d ago
It is quite fair to be livid about similarly miniscule numbers
The thing is I've been told that it's not, and I never saw you step in before. Can I count on you saying something the next time someone uses this argument?
Anyway, sure, give these people some restitution. Unlike transgender care, this is actually reversible.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
7d ago
Unless this idea includes legalizing polygamy, it's probably not going to be an issue.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
7d ago
Of course it would also be hilarious to see this backfire when a flood of Muslim women arrives completely on board with the "get married and have at least two children" plan.
How is that "backfiring"?
Like the "there is no such thing as famine anymore" / "motherhood is merely the means of reproduction and little else" people are to it. People who didn't want to marry always existed and weren't a problem.
I'd say that this what your views lead to, whether you think they should or not, but the next step is likely going to be sexless rat utopia, so we won't even get the 1000 "body" orgies.
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