Botond173
12hr ago
[reposting this here after I posted it in the earlier transnational thread of April 9th as it generated no responses.]
Hungary to stick with veto on EU Israel sanctions following Orban election defeat
Highlighting some parts from this news article:
Hungary's likely next prime minister, Peter Magyar, on Monday said that he would block proposals for the European Union to sanction Israel in one of the few policy positions aligned with those of outgoing nationalist leader, Viktor Orban.[...] Cautioning that he did not want to “rush ahead” in deciding how Budapest should position itself in EU decisions, he added that “Hungary will continue to block EU decisions regarding Israel”.
In a post on X, Mr Netanyahu's office said he extended his “deep appreciation” for Mr Orban, “who stood firmly by Israel's side in the face of unjust international vilification”.[...] Under Mr Orban, Hungary angered EU states by persistently vetoing aid packages to Ukraine, but also sanctions against Israel that require unanimous support. However, consensus among EU states on sanctioning Israel is far weaker than backing for Ukraine, with major states including Germany, Italy and France reluctant to take punitive measures.
More recently, the EU's foreign affairs chief Kaja Kallas voiced frustration at Hungary for opposing a package of sanctions against violent Israeli settlers in the occupied territories. “We don't do what the majority wants, but actually we are doing what this one country wants,” Ms Kallas said in February, without naming Hungary.
From another article:
Certain statements condemning Israeli actions — such as high-casualty military strikes during its war with Hamas in Gaza — that the bloc sought to issue on behalf of all 27 countries were often blocked by Hungary, forcing EU foreign policy chief Kaja Kallas to issue them in her name alone, the official explained.
On substantive policy, however, Hungary’s role is narrower.
The only concrete EU measure that Hungary alone has blocked is a package of sanctions targeting violent West Bank settlers and organizations that support them.
Kallas has repeatedly stated that 26 countries have approved the sanctions measure, and it is widely understood that Hungary is the single country blocking it. Other proposed measures against Israel, such as suspending trade preferences, lack sufficient support regardless of Hungary’s position.
I'd comment on this from a culture war angle because the issue here appears to be largely symbolic, and I think culture wars are largely about symbols and gestures.
Regarding the legacy of anti-Semitism in Hungary and the long-term effect it has had on the attitudes of local liberals towards Israel, I offered a summary of my own interpretation here before so I won't repeat myself. What I'd add here is that the self-declared right-wing conservative ruling party that is alluded to in these articles which has been in power for 16 years has wide opposition, as evidenced by its recent decisive defeat in national elections. And the opposition does not only include the local version of the Blue Tribe (to the extent that they exist), but we can surely say that every local liberal leftist (and every neoliberal for that matter) supports the opposition.
But it seems that the issue of relations with Israel may become a source of internal division for them, and declarations such as the ones quoted above are undoubtedly adding fuel to it. This isn't that visible now but I'm sure it will be visible down the line. Observing the former satellite states of the USSR, I'd say the overall influence of the Israel lobby is maybe nowhere else as strong as in Hungary, and it usually asserts cultural influence through sympathetic liberals in important cultural positions. (Again, please see my comment I mentioned above and another down further down in the same chain for more commentary.)
The seemingly obvious reason this has now been shifting for some time is that local middle-class urban young liberals, the most vocal opponents of the now-ousted government, are increasingly acculturated in similarly aligned US online echo chambers and cultural spheres (subreddits, online news sites, vloggers, forums etc.), which in turn are increasingly dominated by a vehemently anti-Zionist tendency. And I think they will increasingly crowd out local older, less online and more Zionist liberals.
Botond173
14hr ago
I'd like to call your attention to this. Just recently you discussed the allure of right-wing extremism to autistic men and their concept of fairness. Would argue that this here is a valid left-wing feminine parallel?
Are you referring to futile right-wing resistance and an impending severe economic collapse please?
Botond173
14hr ago
I wouldn't dismiss this as a fringe phenomenon. They appear to be average middle-class / precariat urban college girls to me.
This just means that he was popular, not that the consequences of his policies are not terrible.
Botond173
1d ago
Hungary to stick with veto on EU Israel sanctions following Orban election defeat
Highlighting some parts from this news article:
Hungary's likely next prime minister, Peter Magyar, on Monday said that he would block proposals for the European Union to sanction Israel in one of the few policy positions aligned with those of outgoing nationalist leader, Viktor Orban.[...] Cautioning that he did not want to “rush ahead” in deciding how Budapest should position itself in EU decisions, he added that “Hungary will continue to block EU decisions regarding Israel”.
In a post on X, Mr Netanyahu's office said he extended his “deep appreciation” for Mr Orban, “who stood firmly by Israel's side in the face of unjust international vilification”.[...] Under Mr Orban, Hungary angered EU states by persistently vetoing aid packages to Ukraine, but also sanctions against Israel that require unanimous support. However, consensus among EU states on sanctioning Israel is far weaker than backing for Ukraine, with major states including Germany, Italy and France reluctant to take punitive measures.
More recently, the EU's foreign affairs chief Kaja Kallas voiced frustration at Hungary for opposing a package of sanctions against violent Israeli settlers in the occupied territories. “We don't do what the majority wants, but actually we are doing what this one country wants,” Ms Kallas said in February, without naming Hungary.
From another article:
Certain statements condemning Israeli actions — such as high-casualty military strikes during its war with Hamas in Gaza — that the bloc sought to issue on behalf of all 27 countries were often blocked by Hungary, forcing EU foreign policy chief Kaja Kallas to issue them in her name alone, the official explained.
On substantive policy, however, Hungary’s role is narrower.
The only concrete EU measure that Hungary alone has blocked is a package of sanctions targeting violent West Bank settlers and organizations that support them.
Kallas has repeatedly stated that 26 countries have approved the sanctions measure, and it is widely understood that Hungary is the single country blocking it. Other proposed measures against Israel, such as suspending trade preferences, lack sufficient support regardless of Hungary’s position.
I'd comment on this from a culture war angle because the issue here appears to be largely symbolic, and I think culture wars are largely about symbols and gestures.
Regarding the legacy of anti-Semitism in Hungary and the long-term effect it has had on the attitudes of local liberals towards Israel, I offered a summary of my own interpretation here before so I won't repeat myself. What I'd add here is that the self-declared right-wing conservative ruling party that is alluded to in these articles which has been in power for 16 years has wide opposition, as evidenced by its recent decisive defeat in national elections. And the opposition does not only include the local version of the Blue Tribe (to the extent that they exist), but we can surely say that every local liberal leftist (and every neoliberal for that matter) supports the opposition.
But it seems that the issue of relations with Israel may become a source of internal division for them, and declarations such as the ones quoted above are undoubtedly adding fuel to it. This isn't that visible now but I'm sure it will be visible down the line. Observing the former satellite states of the USSR, I'd say the overall influence of the Israel lobby is maybe nowhere else as strong as in Hungary, and it usually asserts cultural influence through sympathetic liberals in important cultural positions. (Again, please see my comment I mentioned above and another down further down in the same chain for more commentary.)
The seemingly obvious reason this has now been shifting for some time is that local middle-class urban young liberals, the most vocal opponents of the now-ousted government, are increasingly acculturated in similarly aligned US online echo chambers and cultural spheres (subreddits, online news sites, vloggers, forums etc.), which in turn are increasingly dominated by a vehemently anti-Zionist tendency. And I think they will increasingly crowd out local older, less online and more Zionist liberals.
Botond173
1d ago
But as far as I know, the rampant criminality of the black lumpenproletariat, as alluded to by Rev Jackson, was largely the combined consequence of various policies and reforms initiated during the Great Society project of the ‘60s. And it wasn’t until the emergence of the narrative about ‘super predators’ that it turned into a relevant political issue in the US, and that was in the early ‘90s. I know the War on Drugs played into all of it, but the idea that it was all just a veiled exercise of intentionally pandering to racist whites is pretty much a case of retcon on the part of Blue Tribe culture warriors.
Historically speaking, this is a rather recent development, so I doubt you can draw such sweeping conclusions about American society based on this.
Botond173
2d ago
The integration in itself has not completely removed all right-wing / nationalist / conservative influence on the education system, the media and culture though. Large parts of it did remain.
Botond173
3d ago
Good points. For the sake of US readers here I think it’s worth pointing out that what American right-wing political wonks think of as the long march through the institutions never really did happen in the Central European countries that integrated to the EU and NATO. This in turn means that rightism never turned into the sort of counterculture that we see in the West, which in turn means that edgy rightism does not have the same allure among the youth as in the West.
Botond173
3d ago
These are not typical culture war issues. So when you see a landslide defeat of Orban tomorrow, don't think that it means that Hungarians suddenly want wokeness.
Now that is has become reality I think it’s worth pointing out that wokeness, whenever it gains political backing, does so by attaching itself to popular causes that are amenable to normies, are directed against the right-wing targets of wokeness, but never explicitly profess woke goals. In the case of democratic systems, the woke do not gain influence openly but sneak into it on the sidelines. From their point of view, this obviously makes a lot of practical sense politically, but may lead to many misunderstandings and illusions if one fails to observe all this cynically, of course.
I think this only applies in the case of the average Blue Triber or dissident rightist etc. looking at it from the outside (this isn't meant as an insult). The outgroup homogeneity effect, in other words.
Botond173
6d ago
Who are "such women"?
Women with insecure attachment.
I argue against the notion that the members here are blind to this issue. I think most of us here are aware that many women are affected by (childhood) trauma.
Botond173
6d ago
I’d also add that much of what is considered to be racial prejudice is actually driven by sexism or sex-based angst and insecurity, and people generally would rather profess to be racists in private than to admit to any of this. It’s a common argument, and not just among SJWs, that white-on-black racism in the American South was mostly just a result of white men’s suspicion that many of their women are susceptible to getting seduced and boned by big black studs. To the extent that such fears really were there, I’m guessing they were overblown, because we know that white women are the social group least likely to engage in exogamy. I’ve also seen the claim that many white men felt conflicted about their attraction to young black women who, unlike white women, had an allure as sexually available and lascivious vixens. (Obesity was notably not much of an issue back then, I should add.)
There’s also the case of the widespread antipathy among black women, especially young single ones, towards white and Asian women that are so-called mudsharks or coal burners i.e. driven to mate with black men. The ‘yellow fever’ of many white men is also frowned upon by women in general, the same as how the willingness of Asian women to mate with white men is reviled among Asian men.
Botond173
6d ago
I'd add that, in fact, prejudice against black men is also less tolerated than prejudice against white women.
Botond173
6d ago
You also need women for society to function, more so, in fact, than you need men. And yet not only is men disliking women not considered socially meaningless, it’s widely considered to be as contemptible as jihadi terrorism or white supremacism. Even though there has also never been a kingdom of men enslaving all women. (Please don’t give me all the usual feminist BS.)
I’d tell her what I think is the truth or at least close to the truth regarding these issues. That her hairstyle is laughable and should be changed (if she looks like a feminist activist who repels normal people with her appearance in itself). Her anger in itself isn’t bad or unwarranted. Some of her problems are caused indirectly by Trump’s and Israel’s policies to a small degree. Other problems of hers are caused by Starmer to a much larger degree. Yet other ones are caused by billionaires. Some of the men she is attracted to are likely to treat her badly. There also men who would do the opposite, but many of them are invisible or unattractive in her eyes. And I wouldn’t bring up Ancient Egypt as it’d just be triggering.
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