CertainlyWorse
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One of the great unwashed.
Friends:
The boys know who they are.
User ID: 333
CertainlyWorse
No one is coming to help. It's just you.
1d ago
Not just that, its also grade inflation where due to the erosion of standards and enforcement, 3 year bachelor degrees are often not enough for professional graduate intakes. Also some 'blue collar' positions now require college time (eg NYPD needs 24 semester credits / 1 year of college time), or a degree where it used to be trade school (nursing in some Western nations).
CertainlyWorse
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3d ago
In addition I think there is currently a strong attempt by the Democrats to force meme 'don't obey unlawful orders (read: any orders given by the administration)' into the zeitgeist. Apparently, the FBI have opened an investigation into the video made by military and intelligence officials, presumably to see if it reaches the benchmark of 'sedition'.
CertainlyWorse
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3d ago
One thing that has really stuck in my craw in the modern era are TSA agents stealing items from luggage. It was (is?) an epidemic, and I really can't see how you maintain trust in a system when the people tasked with enforcing the rules are the ones violating them flagrantly. And, oh dear, I have to note that A Majority of the Security Screeners are nonwhite.
Under Australian Common Law 'Stealing as a Servant' or 'Larceny as a Clerk' are their own particular crimes with harsher punishments, explicitly to combat the exploitation of a vulnerable situation. If people believe that cops, workers or other roles with access and authority are corrupt, then the entire system will grind to a halt.
CertainlyWorse
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3d ago
If "Izzat" culture at all looks appealing its because they are running a scam on scammers. Probably recruiting for some sort of pyramid scheme. Think of it like a recruiting message for a company where the top salesman shows off his cool company car and brags about his company vacation. Meanwhile at that company most of the sales people joining are just doing cold calls and feeding that salesperson at the top promising leads, and then earning close to nothing on the commissions.
Reminds me of multi-level marketing. In another (quokkaest) life I joined Amway and wasted a lot of time helping someone else make money.
CertainlyWorse
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3d ago
One of the things I see people talk about regarding India is this superposition of hateful gloating blended with crying supplication, like code switching back and forth to whichever seems most advantageous.
There's an assumption that those that are bullied, being the weaker party, are somehow better or more honourable people. This is not necessarily the case. There are those that as soon as you take the boot off of their necks out of pity will betray you as soon as they are able (think Gollum from Lord of the Rings).
I've seen this concept in many other circumstances. Palestine for instance (at least from my perspective). China after the Opium Wars and gunboat diplomacy seems to be another where they act like a bullied child that has finally grown up and joined the cops to exploit authority over others.
There are those that are unfairly bullied. I know what that feels like. There are some that are fairly bullied (as individuals). You can't collective guilt an entire culture, but there are certainly those among them that deserve to be called out for bad behaviour. The real problem is sorting the wheat from the chaff.
CertainlyWorse
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3d ago
This f'ing guy. <3
I’m ‘stolen valoring’ a post from the Sunday thread and reposting it here for higher exposure (ht @odd_primes):
This post on "izzat" an Indian cultural honor system, went viral recently. I know we have at least a few Indian users here - how accurate is this characterization? Of course it's probably hard to generalize too much given the fragmented nature of India along cultural, linguistic, religious, and ethnic lines.
Here is the text in a non-image format from /r/askindia - the wide range of responses is interesting.
Recently there was a viral explosion on Kiwifarms > Twitter about a nebulous low trust Indian cultural behavioural trait. This honor culture trait isn’t something that is unique to India. There has however been a huge influx of Indians into the West both through immigration and through internet presence that has left cultural ripples. The memetic word is called ‘Izzat’ even though this is an Urdu word that only vaguely venn diagrams against the concept.
I’m beating around the bush, but I’m pretty much talking about scam culture, being the winner, getting one up on the people that are outsiders to ‘my group’, and getting status points for exploiting my outgroup.
I’d like to reiterate that this isn’t an Indian only issue, but it’s a culture clash between high and low trust cultures and is worthy of discussion.
Edit: Don't drunkpost. This is a culture war issue that should have been given better care in an OP.
2nd edit: Actually quoted the post.
3rd edit: Added a link to the 'patient zero' tweet.
CertainlyWorse
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3d ago
You aren't the guys they're talking about. Clearly there are Indians that integrate very well into the West. We are lucky and happy to have you.
The label and description is hazy, but the concept of low trust scam, exploitative, backstabbing, win-at-all-costs behaviour is a cultural trait and the reason that India is not Wakanda'ing its way to global dominance. It is not unique to Indian culture. Corruption and low trust cultural behaviours are the reason that non first world countries are not first world.
CertainlyWorse
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3d ago
Thanks for this.
CertainlyWorse
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3d ago
#Slowpokeisslow, but how is EU5 compared to EU4. I had a bad experience with Crusader Kings 3.
CertainlyWorse
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3d ago
Not sure why the Urdu term would be any better to use than any other meaning "honor culture" and describing common failure mode of honor cultures.
You're correct. The Urdu word was the one that went viral first. It could have been Sanskrit, Bahasa or WingDings, but the first one out the gate normally has the most memetic gravitas.
Funnily enough when the concept started going viral there were many Indians that immediately started to 'Well acktually..' away the accusation which helped Streisand Effect the word into virality (source: go look at the replies to the patient zero tweet)
edit: couple of words and links
CertainlyWorse
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4d ago
I'm slowing down in my reading of the Aubrey-Maturin series because I don't want it to end. I can just reminisce about it and pretend that there is a lot more to come. I can't remember the last time I caught myself doing this with a series.
I watched this explode on Twitter and 4Chan last week. I think it will stick even as people make arguments about how its an Urdu word and not Hindu. People believe it pattern matches too well to a certain type of 'be the winner' or 'get one over them' behaviour so I can't see it disappearing anytime soon. This isn't purely an Indian concept, I've seen this type of thing in mainland Chinese behaviour too.
I see it as self-destructive suicidally empathetic 'white' high trust cultures developing an immune response to low trust behaviour in real time. Putting a label on the concept is just the first step in responding to the Eternal September of Indians (and other cultures) entering the West physically and online.
edit: Should make it clear I'm not Indian and I'm a heritage Westerner.
2nd edit: I'm surprised 'Izzat' hasn't blown up into a CWR top level post yet. Aukat is another key word I've heard mentioned in this context.
The Seance of Blake Manor. I've got a thing for detective investigation games. Trying to use deductive reasoning game mechanics to figure out who did what. I'd like to say its deductive reasoning, but its only like that in a couple of the games.
If anyone likes this genre, other recommended games are:
- The Painscreek Killings
- The Case of the Golden Idol
- Return of the Obra Din
As always, watch the first episode of a Let's Play on YouTube and then make your mind up in 10 minutes before things get spoiled.
Edit: Almost forgot Shadows of Doubt
Lower temperatures make sleep easier, but wouldn't temperatures drop later in the night? Unless he's got his A/C on a timer.
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