CertainlyWorse
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One of the great unwashed.
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I’m ‘stolen valoring’ a post from the Sunday thread and reposting it here for higher exposure (ht @odd_primes):
This post on "izzat" an Indian cultural honor system, went viral recently. I know we have at least a few Indian users here - how accurate is this characterization? Of course it's probably hard to generalize too much given the fragmented nature of India along cultural, linguistic, religious, and ethnic lines.
Here is the text in a non-image format from /r/askindia - the wide range of responses is interesting.
Recently there was a viral explosion on Kiwifarms > Twitter about a nebulous low trust Indian cultural behavioural trait. This honor culture trait isn’t something that is unique to India. There has however been a huge influx of Indians into the West both through immigration and through internet presence that has left cultural ripples. The memetic word is called ‘Izzat’ even though this is an Urdu word that only vaguely venn diagrams against the concept.
I’m beating around the bush, but I’m pretty much talking about scam culture, being the winner, getting one up on the people that are outsiders to ‘my group’, and getting status points for exploiting my outgroup.
I’d like to reiterate that this isn’t an Indian only issue, but it’s a culture clash between high and low trust cultures and is worthy of discussion.
Edit: Don't drunkpost. This is a culture war issue that should have been given better care in an OP.
2nd edit: Actually quoted the post.
CertainlyWorse
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9hr ago
You aren't the guys they're talking about. Clearly there are Indians that integrate very well into the West. We are lucky and happy to have you.
The label and description is hazy, but the concept of low trust scam, exploitative, backstabbing, win-at-all-costs behaviour is a cultural trait and the reason that India is not Wakanda'ing its way to global dominance. It is not unique to Indian culture. Corruption and low trust cultural behaviours are the reason that non first world countries are not first world.
CertainlyWorse
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10hr ago
Thanks for this.
CertainlyWorse
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11hr ago
#Slowpokeisslow, but how is EU5 compared to EU4. I had a bad experience with Crusader Kings 3.
CertainlyWorse
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12hr ago
Not sure why the Urdu term would be any better to use than any other meaning "honor culture" and describing common failure mode of honor cultures.
You're correct. The Urdu word was the one that went viral first. It could have been Sanskrit, Bahasa or WingDings, but the first one out the gate normally has the most memetic gravitas.
Funnily enough when the concept started going viral there were many Indians that immediately started to 'Well acktually..' away the accusation which helped Streisand Effect the word into virality (source: go look at the replies to the patient zero tweet)
edit: couple of words and links
CertainlyWorse
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16hr ago
I'm slowing down in my reading of the Aubrey-Maturin series because I don't want it to end. I can just reminisce about it and pretend that there is a lot more to come. I can't remember the last time I caught myself doing this with a series.
I watched this explode on Twitter and 4Chan last week. I think it will stick even as people make arguments about how its an Urdu word and not Hindu. People believe it pattern matches too well to a certain type of 'be the winner' or 'get one over them' behaviour so I can't see it disappearing anytime soon. This isn't purely an Indian concept, I've seen this type of thing in mainland Chinese behaviour too.
I see it as self-destructive suicidally empathetic 'white' high trust cultures developing an immune response to low trust behaviour in real time. Putting a label on the concept is just the first step in responding to the Eternal September of Indians (and other cultures) entering the West physically and online.
edit: Should make it clear I'm not Indian and I'm a heritage Westerner.
2nd edit: I'm surprised 'Izzat' hasn't blown up into a CWR top level post yet. Aukat is another key word I've heard mentioned in this context.
The Seance of Blake Manor. I've got a thing for detective investigation games. Trying to use deductive reasoning game mechanics to figure out who did what. I'd like to say its deductive reasoning, but its only like that in a couple of the games.
If anyone likes this genre, other recommended games are:
- The Painscreek Killings
- The Case of the Golden Idol
- Return of the Obra Din
As always, watch the first episode of a Let's Play on YouTube and then make your mind up in 10 minutes before things get spoiled.
Edit: Almost forgot Shadows of Doubt
CertainlyWorse
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5d ago
A friend of mine has told me many stories of their medium sized wholesaling product supplier:
- A low level IT coworker that constantly asks for even small requests to be put in email and shows zero initiative. Any request to upgrade systems is met with 'we can't do that' and won't explain why, or what resources would be necessary to do it. It isn't just because he knows it would be his job. Its because he doesn't know how. Company pays thousands year on year for inefficient SaaS for something that could be set up in-house for a fraction of the yearly fee and then be free thereafter.
- A brand manager that just discounts her product at the end of the month (down to 'at cost') as her bonus is contingent on meeting a revenue target KPI. Revenue, not profit. The finance team has never called her out on it.
- A mid level manager that refuse to discipline their underlings out of a fear of confrontation. This has allowed a bully to run rampant leading to the quitting of more than one staff member over the years. When asked for help the manager will ask the bullied coworker to 'stand up for themselves'.
- Majority of staff are clock-punchers who make zero effort to suggest improvements, fix systemic problems or improve company profit. Mad scramble for signalling around performance appraisal period and then back to malingering.
It sounds like a hellscape. I've worked in thankless jobs and understand doing the bare minimum, but her stories reminds me of my time in government where I would lose respect for myself if I forced myself to work at the level of some of my coworkers. In places like this you can be a 'rising star' by coasting.
CertainlyWorse
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7d ago
I tried to do a completionist run of CP2077 and fizzled out about 2/3rds of the way through. It just failed to grip me enough. If I'd just spent more time focusing the main quest I'd probably have finished it.
CertainlyWorse
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7d ago
An alternate to Outer Wilds is The Forgotten City. Another game where you're better off knowing little going in.
CertainlyWorse
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8d ago
I find it so frustrating that the protagonist hasn't asked more important questions or come to more important conclusions.
Like does she understand that the hivemind includes all of the world's spymasters and psychologists? That the hivemind could be lying to her and that some of the extreme 'revealing' truths and acts of compliance could have been undertaken to deceive her? She doesn't know that the other unlinked humans are actually unlinked. Even the hivemind's supposed susceptibility and reaction to negative emotions could be fabricated to deceive her and waste her time while it develops a means of assimilating her.
I would assume that I was under constant surveillance and any notes I took in even an encrypted form would be deciphered, but she seems to be happy with her whiteboard. She could consider sleeping in a different location every night or having future important conversations with the other spanish dude in a randomly selected SCIF.
Besides gripes with the plot, yeah I've got similar issues with the pacing. Just long drawn out irrelevant scenes to show and not tell. I kind of understand that the premise would run out pretty quickly without doing this so I can forgive them. There's also the hope that the show finds its feet and gets more creative with things. Plenty of shows had lackluster first seasons before exploding into something much better.
CertainlyWorse
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9d ago
Dude is one of those deliberate friendzone words coming from a young woman. Buddy, mate etc.
CertainlyWorse
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10d ago
I don't think they're asking them to refuse to obey orders. I think its more of the counseling and urging to cause disloyalty or impair loyalty within the military and intelligence communities.
Free speech protections are pretty high though and they would have run this past the lawyers before running the ad.
CertainlyWorse
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11d ago
Might be worth talking to a therapist. Therapists (psychologists) can be hit or miss depending on the issue, personality matches and their competence, but I think it might have some value here. The reason for this is that you need someone competent with the ability to locate and point out your blindspot and help find the root cause.
What I'm not sure about is that I think a lot of personality traits (even extreme ones) can just be temperament related (eg your genetic personality predisposition) and they're hard to track. Coping mechanisms might be different if you can't resolve the 'root cause' because its an intrinsic part of you.
For context, I talked to a therapist once that thought that some of my traits were as a result of something that happened to me when I was 'pre-verbal' (eg an infant with no conscious memory). I've still got no idea if they were onto something, but I've gotten a hold of most of my issues as I've worked on them over time.
CertainlyWorse
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11d ago
Pretty sure you can still egress correctly after a disagreement with my ex-girlfriend and/or the Russian government.
CertainlyWorse
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13d ago
I've never had a slap from the mods and I think its very easy to say ruthless words with a razor's edge without getting modded.
You could advocate for Aztec child sacrifice here if you crafted your words in the right way. Anyone getting modded has a skill issue.
CertainlyWorse
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14d ago
I think the timing was fine and allowed the migration to proceed with maximum cohesion. Trying to do it while /r/themotte was under administrative sanctions would have lost more users.
The writing was on the wall considering correspondence from the admins. It seemed to be 'You know what you did, no we aren't going to tell you' as a cover for 'we just don't like you, but don't have any specific rule we can point to'. It reminds me of 'Performance Managing' someone out of their job in corporate. Once the process has started, its almost impossible to reverse. They have made their mind up that they are going to get rid of you and that's that.
As it stands, Reddit is completely ruined for any serious political discourse these days. Bots, datamining for AI, making things 'advertiser friendly'.
CertainlyWorse
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15d ago
I'm surprised they didn't send a hit squad after him. Stealing $100 million during war time isn't low level treason.
CertainlyWorse
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21d ago
I just started watching this. The writing is amazing. Why can't we make shows like this any more? This reminds me of the decline in the aesthetics of architecture and makes me sad.
CertainlyWorse
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25d ago
If the US gov is trading a tiny economic impact in exchange for the national security and long term economic benefits of reshoring, I would consider that a win.
CertainlyWorse
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29d ago
Are you absolutely certain that you didn't mention your profession to one of your acquaintances? Big nights out drinking include a lot of words that you will not remember.
That said, I remember once I had someone do a near hit on my own profession, but I was 'wearing the uniform' in the sense of how I was dressed, haircut, stance, physical conditioning etc. It wasn't like I was on my way home from work, it was the weekend and I didn't have a Steve Jobs/Zuckerberg wardrobe.
I was very bemused when it happened and it made me reassess how people view others they don't know.
CertainlyWorse
No one is coming to help. It's just you.
30d ago
Good on you for putting yourself out there. I find events like these to be one of the best places to find a girlfriend. Mainly because you can very quickly rule out women that you don't like and move on to the next. On apps this can take days or weeks and cost even more money.
Its very normal to not connect with someone you're talking to at a singles event. I suggest (if there is a next time) that you keep practicing approaching woman that you find interesting from a distance. Otherwise, yes you will have people approach you that might not be your first choice. Approach anxiety is incredibly common and takes some time to overcome. For me it took years.
Don't be angry at yourself for spending $40. Think of how much time and money it would have cost to have a date with those two women only to find out you weren't compatible. Not to mention the rest of the experience you gained in mingling and pushing yourself in these types of environments.
I understand you don't want to do anything like it ever again, but its difficult to find alternatives that provide such a target rich environment. If it helps, many people feel the same way you do at events like that. That they are dehumanising, stressful and frustrating. Its either put up with it as a necessary evil or accept a slower paced stream of potential partners through other avenues.
This f'ing guy. <3
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