Jesweez
1yr ago
Liberal democracies tend not to do things like for example:
Crush a protest against the leader with authoritarian force, dismantle the system of democratic choice.
If you read my statement, I said that Trump didn’t do either of these things.
But he often does show tendencies toward these things, causing people to pattern match him to them.
Of course, if you are someone who is concerned about fascism, it’s important to pattern match potential fascists before they become actual fascists, so for those people it can be considered a worthwhile exercise.
Fascism is a word that has an actual meaning.
It has a meaning which does at times resonate quite a bit with Trump though, I’d argue that although he doesn’t fully meet the definition there is a reason it keeps getting applied to him specifically. For example,
Fascists often:
Dismantle the systems of democracy. Trump didn’t do this, I don’t think you can call him a full fascist at this point, but he has tendencies on this point. For many people, including his former vice president, he’s the first US president to try to break the system of transfer of power. Whatever you believe about that situation, he said from the beginning that he’ll consider the electoral process rigged if he loses. And once he did, he loudly and consistently employed a whole host of means to try break the system, trying to get governors to “find votes”, to put up alternative electors, to halt the system of certification, etc. He got his followers so riled up about this that they formed a mob and broke into the US capitol building. These are all definitely tendencies toward the dismantle democracy aspect of fascism, and if you were in a country where someone did try these things, you might pre-emptively call that person a fascist.
Promote ethnonationalism and typically delineate a group of people as an enemy. Trump often takes steps in this directions and then pulls back. Actual ethnonationalists often have a love hate relationship with the guy because he’ll use promising rhetoric and then say something else which is pro x or y ethnicity and which pisses those guys off. But in the end he was elected on the central promise to conduct the greatest mass deportations in American history, and those vibes certainly match what would be expected for historical fascists to say as well.
Use authoritarian state force on internal minority groups. I don’t think he’s done this, kudos. Other people often think he has, “children in cages”, etc. But fascism tends to be crueler than this and less within previously established norms. There are obviously fears around this happening during the mass deportations, but that remains to be seen.
Crush dissent violently. This is often part of the dismantle democracy thing. I don’t think Trump has done this and this would be the biggest American norm to violate in order for a fascist to emerge. I do believe that Trump the man himself has these tendencies that could have emerged in a different context (consider his rhetoric in quotes such as his praise of China’s strength during the Tiananmen massacre, and lamenting that were not strong like that). There are many similar quotes that could be mined to paint a case that he sometimes has somewhat of a fixation on this type of “strength”.
Idealize the military and often use military force in expansionist ways. Trump has sometimes idealized the military in ways that previous American norms have not, e.g. calling for the US to begin doing military parades in the style of China or N Korea. But up until this point he has not shown much tendency to launch any sort of military adventure, much to his credit. (And of course to your point about previous presidents, much to their demerit). Recently he’s been making people edgy on this point, yesterday saying that he would use economic and perhaps military force to annex various territories around the world. Knowing Trump, this is likely his typical “start with the most extreme statement” bluster. But I think it can be pretty clear to understand why for people who think he does have certain fascist tendencies to become concerned when he suddenly starts talking about expansion or annexing territories. We’ll see if he actually is serious about using economic force to try and annex other territories. If so he fits the point about territorial expansionism. If he broke with norms so extremely to threaten Panama with the military in order to take territory from them that would obviously be extremely fascist coded behavior. The whole thing, in the end, shows hints of him breaking with norms that liberal democracies have had in the postwar era. Like in the Helsinki accords, to which the US is signatory; they respect each others sovereignty, they respect territorial boundaries, they do not threaten one another for territory, etc. Breaking these norms is definitely fascist coded, and we’ll see if he continues down that path or if it’s just another passing Trumpism to sit back and enjoy.
I think you should learn Spanish specifically because shooting the shit with Mexicans — and I’m putting Mexicans in a deserved pedestal above all other Spanish speakers here — is the funniest shit and will probably lead to a great improvement in your daily life.
I’m sorry but es la neta wey
Jesweez
1yr ago
Is it permanently and historically theirs, or do you just mean that sometimes people will say that this is “X group” land historically and then go about their business as normal?
Jesweez
1yr ago
This is true, however I’d just point out, uncontacted tribes in the Amazon usually do have contact with other tribes.
The word used in countries where these tribes are typically found is more accurate, people who are in “voluntary isolation”.
Not saying this to make any point one way or another, just because the subject interests me.
Yet his wife is?
Throat cancer, she talks with one of those electric voice boxes you press up to the neck.
She took the vaccine, contracted Covid at the same time, and she’s alive and kicking and living with her children and grandchildren.
Modern cancer treatment is actually surprisingly effective when you catch it early.
Also, the COVID vaccine is objectively effective at preventing deaths.
Jesweez
1yr ago
Texas only leads renewables because it’s a profitable use of their land IMO.
Jesweez
1yr ago
Disagree, immigrants come and typically work far harder than Americans who are comfortable and lazier. Those are the people with the pioneering spirit, willing to build something new for their families. That’s why immigrant groups outperform Americans economically in so many different fields. Vivek was right.
Jesweez
1yr ago
Nobody more so than immigrants in my opinion
Starting a new life in a foreign land
Jesweez
1yr ago
Meanwhile it’s my grandma who decided to vaccinate herself who is living with dignity and he unfortunately died without being able to breathe.
In my opinion anyway. Dying that way fucking sucks man. But I can respect that he was ready to face those consequences for his principles.
Jesweez
1yr ago
Eh, my grandma had throat cancer (both lived as prolific smokers), she did take the vaccine, got covid at the same time, and is still alive and kicking.
Other side, my other grandpa is 92 and plays tennis every other day. I’ve got some strong longevity genes on both sides, but sadly messing around with stuff like this can cause you to lose out on a decade of life. Guy would’ve definitely enjoyed to take a couple more vacations with his wife before it was all said and done, I know that.
Jesweez
1yr ago
But if you have lung cancer and are in your 80s, it can and will kill you. As was his case.
Jesweez
1yr ago
Idk.
My ancestors are from northern Europe.
You know what that means?
I come from the people who more than any other group bred with a different freaking species than my own.
If admixture between races offends God than my lineage has already been damned since the last glacial maximum.
Was it Scott Alexander who back in the day wrote an essay about how liberal values are optimized for times of peace and abundance and conservative values are optimized for a zombie apocalypse scenario?
I’ve pretty much incorporated that into a lot of my perception of politics.
The role of conservatives is often to point at something and say that it is dangerous and should be given more due attention.
As a normie lib I often have the reaction of the poster you quote, but also I have to say there have been times that over time I came around to the conservative position that “X represents a danger that we should be more wary of”.
My best example is how I used to be pro-decriminalization of hard drugs in the early 2010s when much of the rhetoric was based around the failure of the war on drugs. I was also pretty liberal about homelessness. But now I’ve come around to the conservative position that we should crack down on those things to preserve the public space for normal people.
Other fronts of the culture war are for example conservatives telling me I should be more afraid of immigration.
But it doesn’t always line up. I think conservatives should be more afraid of climate change, for example. Particularly if you don’t want lots of immigrants coming.
But this does line up with the original essay, being concerned about preserving the environment is something from a peace and abundance mindset, not a survival among dangers mindset. If you’re in a total war for example, the effects your bombs have on the environment don’t fucking matter!
Another one I’m trying to square is COVID. I think the fault line there was through the axis of societal cooperation vs individualism but it’s still interesting to me… for example my very conservative grandfather who had lung cancer refused to take any preventative measures and subsequently died from COVID. Here was a case where as a liberal I was predisposed to point out dangers and recommend caution but as a conservative this was anathema to my grandfathers nature.
Jesweez
1yr ago
In what way was it deleterious?
Curious because I’ve never actually heard a serious argument that it was!
Bullshit, I offer a counterpoint:
The JD Vance strategy
Seriously though, admixture is human. Europeans are full of Neanderthal genes, heck my DNA report shows that I have Inuit genes and it's likely because my Viking ancestors stole women from everywhere they went.
It’s in our nature.
Fearing the loss of advanced pattern recognition because some people might hook up with Indians is silly, you’ll just end up with some little mixed Srinivasan Ramanujans running around.
Jesweez
1yr ago
Awesome, so it’ll help us address the fertility crisis too
America is so back
Jesweez
1yr ago
I think his actions are incredibly based but utterly lacking in 5D chess by not holding it together even until Trump is inaugurated.
Going to go wash my fingers after typing that.
Jesweez
1yr ago
And they built one who’s principles y’all now question.
If you wanted a blood and soil type country with deep ethnic roots you can try to move to one. The US is a pretty bad option for those who do like that sort of thing.
Jesweez
1yr ago
So now literally nobody is American in America since there aren’t any frontiers left in the country.
Jesweez
1yr ago
It still takes something to uproot your life and move to a new country and culture 1000s of miles away from everything you’ve known.
It’s a big part of the reason why immigrants so often outperform native stock of Americans economically. They’re the people who were willing to dive in and risk charting a new course.
Well there’s not a great definition of fascism, but I do think it’s a valid category that we shouldn’t do away with, nonetheless.
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