MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
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User ID: 1783
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
20d ago
How much risk is reasonable risk. This idea is doing a lot of heavy lifting, but there’s just no definitive answer to “when does the risk get bad enough that cops or ICE or political figures are allowed to feel scared enough to protect themselves from said risk?” ICE is subject to serious doxxing and real-time tracking, they’re being shot at, their home addresses and thus their families’ locations are publicized thus meaning that a radicalized idiot with a gun could show up at their house, their kids’ school, or anywhere else they go. Police might get a guy they tried to arrest mad enough to try something, but it’s actually pretty rare and there are no databases or tracking apps telling people where law enforcement is at every moment. There are no public figures that refer to cops as Gestapo or quote Anne Frank every time the local beat officer arrests someone.
If ICE were treated like local cops and given the support given to cops, sure, I get the idea that you should accept risk, and that you should be able to be identified. In tge current circumstances, asking for that means that you want these agents and their families dead. Because in this particular environment, that’s tge clear and obvious result of demasking agents while they’re being shot at, doxxed with public databases, the rhetoric compares their work to Nazis rounding up Jews, and there are apps to real time track them still available for download.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
20d ago
I mean I think they’re already on some level suicidal and they decide to kill as a way to bring attention to their biggest grievance.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
20d ago
Three political attempts at violence in a decade is much lower than the current baseline which is at least 5-6 within the last 6 months. You can’t really reach absolute zero, but having those events be rare is a much better thing. The 1970s were more radical mostly because of Vietnam and the draft and mostly calmed down once the war and draft ended.
Butler I regard as at least semi political simply because I don’t think you can non-politically shoot a presidential candidate during a campaign rally. He was also disturbed as I understand it, so mental illness plays a role.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
20d ago
There’s also a case to be made that the violence problem doesn’t start with your minimum number of shootings, but with what we have now — growing normalization, increased dehumanization of political opponents, and political extremism. When large portions of the population believe their opponents to be threats to democracy, and it becomes normal to refer to them as evil and subhuman, you get more shootings.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
20d ago
Okay, but anything short of saying “federal agents doing their job” is tacitly enabling the narrative they’re Gestapo goose stepping into Home Depot to arrest anyone who looks Mexican. At some point, leadership has to say “I don’t like it, but it’s more important to protect officers doing their job” or they bare some responsibility for acts committed against them.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
20d ago
Being fair, it’s fairly clear that any connected with ICE who gets identified is being doxxed, and the officer as well as his family are being threatened, and now that we’re at the point of shooting at them, isolated calls for de masking ice agents may as well be stated as “please make it easier for random crazy people to identify you, find your home address and threaten or even kill you.” Theres perhaps reason for numbers, or some other unique ID to be visible, but a full face and a name in the era of the internet are enough that you may as well have them wear their name, address, phone number, and instagram account name.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
20d ago
I think honestly the best answer is serious pressure, social and political against all political bomb throwers. The reason that political violence in 1980 was rare was that it was socially unacceptable to be a radical, mainstream media was corralled by technology (there were only 3 channels and news content was limited to a hour a day and whatever was printed in the newspaper), by social pressure (people refusing to watch entire stations who got too radical, or calling the FCC to complain), and because the screen was in a public place, there was social stigma at play to people — especially minor children— watching radical content. In the home, mom can turn off the television, especially since there’s only one and it’s in the living room.
Going on to social pressure, the only people who were radicals were either very quiet about it or were basically social pariahs. The open communist, post high school worked in the fine field of low-rent retail and fast food restaurants. He had few friends and generally only among other true-believing pariahs like himself. If you worked in an office job, you wouldn’t talk about politics because saying anything even slightly outside the fairly narrow window of things white make middle class office workers believed was a good way to end a career. All of this social conformity kept the violence down because it’s hard to justify violence if you’re not pretty radical in your ideology. And if you are pressured to not be radical, and can’t marinate in radical ideology, it’s a lot of work to become and remain a radical as you get pushback from people you know and people who have power over you.
So my suggestion is to basically leverage those kinds of ideas. Make political radicals losers again. Don’t hang around with them, don’t hire them, and don’t let them be radicals in public. Policy wise I would hope that some kind of control can be exerted such that radical content on social media, streaming services, and on cable networks can be removed. Barring that, at least in your own home, be aware of the kinds of content and social media your kids are consuming and as possible prevent them from getting into those kinds of content or influencers. If I were a parent I’d look at the people he’s into and seeing if they are dancing around because Kirk got shot or are calling MAGA or the government authoritarian or something.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
20d ago
We don’t have one yet on the level of other places. The Middle East has refined political murder and calling for the blood of your enemies into an art form. However, that doesn’t mean we don’t have a very serious problem with political radicalism and growing acceptance of violence. Those things exist and exist quite openly on very mainstream platforms including mainstream liberal cable news and radio and podcasts. When you keep yelling Nazi, comparing the ICE Raids to Nazi deportations, quote Anne Frank talking about Nazi deportations in her era and winking that Trump is doing this, and tells you that their Democracy is at stake, you can’t help but create the kind of environment where someone unstable will decide to Save Our Democracy with real bullets aimed at real people.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
21d ago
I think there is a strong case for canceling particularly egregious forms of political responses to the death of political figures simply because of the radicalizing effects of being on social media especially those curated by algorithms and that act as filters for content. To be blunt we are not only radicalizing people, but normalizing it, and now celebrating the deaths of political opponents. Unless we very quickly return to the norms of civility and decency that used to exist — where you could disagree with people and even fight for what you believe in, but you also respected the other side and didn’t treat it as a death-match. I find it unfortunate to have to resort to cancellation, but I can’t really think of any other effective means to force de escalation here. Letting people do happy dances on TikTok celebrating the death of Charlie Kirk and letting people normalize extreme rhetoric about political opponents is simply lightning the fuse on whoever (left or right) is going to tick off the opposite filter bubble the most. Firing people is extreme and shouldn’t be done lightly or for mere opinions, but I also think it’s perfectly reasonable and appropriate to fire people for promoting extremism or violence or celebrating violence.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
21d ago
How many academic journals would even consider a well-researched trans-skeptical study? Not even publish, but get to the point of doing a serious peer review? And going down the list of other things MAGA/MAHA takes seriously, tge same question— if a journal received a paper that was well-researched but says ivermectin is an effective treatment for Covid, do they send it out for peer review, or is it simply circular filed and ignored? In order to start doing the serious alternative research you want MAGA/MAHA to do, they need access to the journals and conferences that give legitimacy to the science. Furthermore, could a secretary go back to empirical evidence if the studies are strongly biased and the journals are captured? If the medical and science establishment were radically traditional Catholic, you aren’t going to be able to roll back to “evidence backed monotheism” because anything that isn’t in line with traditional Catholic teachings hasn’t gotten through.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
24d ago
My generic advice for habits is that if you want to stop, you need to put as much friction as possible between you and the stimulus. In the case of sugar and alcohol, my advice is “win at the grocery store” meaning don’t buy things that you don’t want to be consuming. If you’re quitting alcohol, then don’t have any in your home. At minimum, that means drinking requires you to get dressed and leave home. And if eating cookies requires you to bake them yourself or having ice cream means putting on pants and getting in the car, you’re not going to do it much.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
24d ago
I think honestly, I’d distance my family especially children from these people. You can be personally nice, but don’t let your kids hang around that family as the child is likely experiencing social contagion and his parents seem unwilling or unable to question it or do anything about it.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
24d ago
I think outside of the world building, there’s not much to Sanderson. It’s interesting in a kind of D&D setting way, but it lacks a lot of cultural elements, the characters and plot aren’t that interesting, the politics is nonexistent.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
24d ago
There’s a difference between comedy satire and making fun of someone’s death. And a lot of statements made by news media and regular media today would have been so horrific to someone living in 1960 that they would have whisked these people off the air as soon as they said some of the things they said. There’s no chance that Kimmel would have been able to mock the death of a political figure in 1964 probably not even 1974. Not necessarily that people had thin skin, but you weren’t going to stay on the air even to finish the monologue if you were doing things like that. More than likely you would end up seeing Kimmel escorted off the set and the producers apologize to the audience for that bit.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
24d ago
I mean the problem with incremental changes is that they’re often gamed along the way. If you make sudden drastic changes then you can’t simply keep going while your lawyer finds the loopholes. And thus you end up doing things like fudging job titles to make tge lower wages not taxable. Sure a senior developer might get 160K a year. But Pajeet is actually a junior developer (just ignore that his tasks are exactly like a senior developer). Or if it’s 180 days in country before fines or payments kick in, you just need to get the guy on a plane on day 180, wait a few days and bring him back on a fresh H1B. If you give the. Until tomorrow to cough up the money you can’t rules-lawfare your way out of it.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
25d ago
The problem is the format itself. It’s basically a live podcast, with a host that tells bad jokes, a ton of padding, and set dressing because for some reason it is being put on TV instead of on the radio or in a podcast. And in that vein, its competition has huge advantages— cheaper format, not being bound to a time slot, cheaper hosts, no need for sets, costumes, or live music. Any decent comedian could do exactly what Kimmel and Colbert were doing at 1/10 or less the cost, and I don’t think the format of late night comedy shows makes sense.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
25d ago
They weren’t celebrating on mainstream outlets though. Pretty sure Johnny Carson did not make a “lol Mansons shot a deserving pig” joke or even make a bacon reference. Weirdos on the fringe are going to weirdo. But in our moment, especially considering how relatively stable our country actually is, the fact that a mainstream TV show and mainstream news and movie/tv stars and musicians are doing this is simply not what I’d call a fringe movement.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
25d ago
So what, the IDF machine-guns them to avoid crowd crushes??? They draw invisible, imaginary lines that, when crossed, get the Gazans shot? Come on, there's a very simple answer here. Few would justify Palestinian suicide bombings like this - 'it was for the Israeli's own good that the Palestinians blew up that bus full of civilians, they crossed an invisible Palestinian security line or something.' Suicide bombings are acts of hatred.
The Israelis also hate the Palestinians. That's why they torture them, blow them up, steal their land, knock down their houses, use all these elaborate terror tactics, shoot them when they're unarmed and obviously no threat. They've been doing this for years, before and after the present conflict.
I mean the situation for 70 years has been Israel gives the tiniest bit of leeway to Palestinians, which jihadists immediately exploit to kill Israelis. It’s obviously not a good thing, but there’s no line that won’t be crossed by Palestinians, and thus Israel no longer has any social trust whatsoever for Palestinians. They’ve been suckered too many times, so the6 see no reason to give quarter. Your “obviously unarmed” Palestinian might well be wearing a bomb (this happened for decades, which is why when Israelis strip captures to their underwear — looking for suicide vests. The supposedly apartheid tactic of making Palestinians use a separate bus stop and be searched before getting on a bus is a response to bus bombings in the 1990s.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
25d ago
I’d avoid doing stuff like thins simply because I don’t actually believe it’s sincere in this case. There hasn’t yet, to my knowledge been anyone pushing back on the left leaning side against the “white nationalist Christian nationalist, or fascism” rhetoric, and im talking about pretty big names on the left. They want to take credit in some sense for being the humane guys, but then they aren’t willing to do, well, anything up to and including banning people on left leaning media or social media for saying stuff like “we have 400 days to save democracy” or trying to sneak in “yes shooting him in the neck was bad but he didn’t like trans people or immigrants so he doesn’t deserve sympathy.” If you can’t full stop say “we have to tone down our rhetoric to prevent violence,” there’s no waters edge to be had. It’s simply using the name for marketing.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
1mo ago
My issue with Krav is that it really doesn’t teach fighting. It’s basically a system that can teach you how to use things you know, providing you learned them somewhere else first. And because most schools are not quality controlled in the least, you often have guys who have never been in an actual fight teaching things they don’t understand how to work to other people who know nothing about fighting. BJJ has faults, as does boxing, but at least in those systems, the to-KO or to-tapout rules of competition and the fact that the culture around those arts insists on winning competitions, you can be pretty sure that the guy who’s teaching you how to get the other guy into a chokehold has done so numerous times on an opponent actually working to stop him and knows how to make it work. It isn’t just something he demonstrated in class, he learned it by using it in competition. And that same competition will teach people how to think about fighting. You’ll learn how to see the next technique being keyed up, learn to think 3-4 moves in and how to control range. If you can’t do those things having “efficient techniques” doesn’t matter. If you can’t control range I can be out of range quickly or step in and be inside of where you wanted me to be.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
1mo ago
I don’t think the software is make or break. The issue is Reddit having a very online user base who don’t really want to give up on ready access to millions of other people who hang around on forums all day. Getting an entire community to uproot itself and go elsewhere is not easy. Our move took months of planning and I think we still lost somewhere between 40-60% of our active users.
This is why most such protests are met with deafening silence. They know that they have no real option to leave. They can turn the page black as long as they want, Conde Nast doesn’t care because once the users get bored they go back to posting and commenting as usual. It’s basic negotiation— if you can’t live without the product, then the other guy can do pretty much anything he wants. You will whine, but eventually you’ll go along.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
1mo ago
It’s used quite often in conversation and even in marketing. It’s obviously a metaphor, but there’s really no equivalent for women. There’s no thought that being too into masculine things (like sports) makes you less of a woman, but there are numerous activities that men avoid for being too “feminine” and thus emasculating to consider. Art is a big one, and it’s almost assumed that any male who is into art is basically a sissy and probably gay on top of that. A woman never really has the same consideration. She can hunt deer, field dress it and drag it to camp secure in her womanhood. She can box and beat the crap out of people and still be seen as a woman. On the accomplishment side, a male would not be considered a man unless he had a reasonably high status job, his own place, and a non-junker car. He’s less than for that. A woman can have no job, no car, and live with mom and dad and still be seen as a woman. And on it goes. Men have to work to be man enough to be considered a man by other men and by women. If you fail, you’re stuck until you manage to leave and go accomplish masculinity.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
1mo ago
So are women issued a woman card? Does such a concept even exist? Men are constantly worried about being “man enough,” yet again women don’t have to sweat it. If they have boobs, they are a woman, whether or not they accomplish anything, whether or not they have kids, whether or not they dress like women, etc. There is no woman card to issue, because unlike manhood, it’s not something you have to achieve.
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
1mo ago
History might well have a role as well. Jews have their entire history of being persecuted specifically for being Jews, and this obviously creates the solidarity, not just because you care about other Jews, but because history shows them that their survival depends on being aware of persecution of Jews because it will eventually come for them too.
I think until the rhetoric ratchets down to even remotely sane levels, and people stop acting like Wolverines in Red Dawn in training or radicalized rhetoric, I don’t think it reasonable to assume that an eventual hot war (which will look like the Irish Troubles) is pretty safe as a bet. If anything, we’re moving toward more violence, not less, and those pushing the memes enabling all of this are more often celebrated than punished. Kimmel pretty much celebrated the assassination and freaking Disney is still paying for his show (on a positive note, affiliate stations are often refusing to air it). Where’s the evidence of people stepping back and saying “this is just plain unacceptable?”
I have some Moldbug sympathies, not that im completely opposed to some sort of self government, but that most people are so completely unsuited to the task that they must be told firmly to sit down and shut up so government actually works.
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