MathWizard
Good things are good
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User ID: 164
On an economic level, I agree. This is a very very hard problem. In the case of orphans, you can resolve it by sending them to foster families or other forms of government housing instead of just handing a check to reward every kid that runs away from home. The state still pays lots of money, but the kids don't directly benefit because they get substitute parents instead of just money. But you can't really do that with single parents. You can't realistically assist single mothers with state-funded foster-fathers who come and act as the missing parent for the kid. Because she's an adult and has rights, there's a lot less coercion and control that you can't use to force compliance in the same way you can with a runaway teen (and if you tried it would turn out horribly dystopian). So we're kind of stuck handing out checks and trying to make them exactly the right size: not too small or the kids suffer poverty and neglect, not too large or the mothers have more kids and avoid marriage.
On a social level, there is so much more we could be doing to incentivize marriage. Stay at home mothers used to get respect and praise for their parenting. Single mothers used to be shamed and looked down on. Now we do the opposite. People respond to economic incentives, but they also respond to social ones too. Even if money incentivizes more single mothers, turning the dial on the social pressures in the opposite direction could help mitigate this.
Do you believe that it's actually truly subjective? As in, it's okay for someone to kill someone else as long as they don't consider the victim to be a person? There's absolutely nothing wrong with people slaughtering "non-persons" as long as the non-person is sincerely believed by the slaughterers, and if people go around doing that you will have no complaints?
Or do you perhaps have a more nuanced and less genocidal belief about personhood grounded by something beyond mere subjectivity?
Framing things in terms of "pro-single-mother" vs "anti-single-mother" makes about as much sense as being "pro-orphan" or "anti-orphan". You can believe that a situation is bad to be in and therefore want to help people who happen to be in that situation AND try to prevent people from falling into that situation AND not Goodhart the numbers by killing them.
DO: Help kids with no parents with money and support structures (without actively incentivizing the status)
DO: Try to prevent people from becoming orphans.
DON'T: Reduce the number of orphans by killing them
Really, a child of a single parent is just a half-orphan. Therefore
DO: Help single parent families with money and support structures (without actively incentivizing the status)
DO: Try to prevent people from becoming single-parents.
DON'T: Reduce the number of single-parents by killing them (or the children)
All of this follows trivially from the quality of life the child can expect, on average, in each state:
Full family > Single Parent Family > Orphan > Death
Whether you want more or fewer single parent families then depends on which direction you're coming from. Trying to pin people down into "pro" or "anti" single parents only makes sense if these were terminal ends rather than proxies for quality of life.
A good rule of thumb to predict a pro-life person's opinion on something is to mentally replace the fetus with a 1 week old (post birth) baby. Or, if you don't think babies should have rights either, maybe a two or three year old. That is the logical implication of believing fetuses are people.
Would you have sympathy for a mother who killed her 1 week old baby because her husband committed suicide? Would that sympathy extend far enough to excuse the act?
I see where you're coming from. On a gut level I immediately want to retort that punishment and forgiveness should be equally affected by your smallness and anonymity. If you're just one of many people such that your forgiveness barely matters, then your punishment barely matters too, especially since the external outcome of your forgiveness would be the cessation of your punishment/shaming.
But since it's also the case that
A: Punishments are applied in a decentralized way, with each person using their own individual criteria for what should receive shame
B: The impact of punishment via shame is nonlinear. Getting 20 death threats doesn't actually feel twice as bad as getting 10 death threats, so reducing the number of shamers by 50% doesn't actually help all that much.
Your point probably stands. Aella could repent and change her ways, and maybe 50% of people would forgive her and the shame would go down, but the other 50% would continue And also probably a bunch of sex-positive people would start shaming her and it might even end up worse. So then she's paid the massive social and lifestyle costs of repenting without actually solving the shame. Without a near-universally recognized authority who can forgive her and enforce other people's forgiveness (in deed, even if not in belief), she has no incentive to repent (beyond a genuine realization of being wrong and a self-sacrificing desire to do the right thing despite the costs).
Which in turn massively decreases the pro-social utility of shame. The point of punishments is to disincentivize the punished behavior, both on the part of the person being punished, and other people who witness them. But we've essentially lost half of that. If we make her miserable enough maybe we'll scare others away from following her example, but sometimes young people are stupid and do stuff before they realize the consequences. And anyone who does and then changes their mind is just stuck in a world where they can't be forgiven. Or more likely, doubles down on the side they're already on because they know they can't go back.
I don't know that we can do anything about that. But it still kind of sucks.
I broadly agree with you, with the caveat that I think there's a little more room for charity/empathy/forgiveness for people who are being harmful by accident rather than on purpose.
A murderer knows that what they are doing is wrong. They know that they are going to inflict a huge harm on others (both the direct victim and everyone who knows them), and they do it anyway. They are evil and they know this and they do it anyway because they are angry/selfish and care more about themselves than others. It's an issue of bad morality.
Aella believes that she is doing good. She has a distorted view of society/psychology in a way that makes her think that her lifestyle will make the average person more happy instead of less happy. She does what she does partly in order to make herself more popular and justify her lifestyle, but in part because she genuinely thinks it will make the world better. Now, likely some of this is cognitive dissonance: maybe somewhere deep down inside she knows its wrong but doesn't care, but I think the majority of the issue is a question of bad objectivity.
Now, from a consequentialist perspective Aella is probably worse and so, if necessary and in isolation, we would be willing to inflict a higher cost in order to stop her. But the norms of "have harsher punishments for people who hurt others on purpose than those who do it by accident" is useful in general, as is "have harsher punishments for people who hurt others in unambiguous ways than those who hurt others in ambiguous and indirect ways". This makes it easier for people to know what to expect and adjust their behavior ahead of time (decreasing the rates of bad behavior) instead of doing it anyway and then getting punished randomly and unexpectedly afterwards. It also decreases the ability of people to apply punishments to good behaviors by making convoluted arguments about indirect harms. It also gives more opportunities for forgiveness and redemption. There's a non-negligible chance that at some point Aella will observe more of the effects of her actions, realize her mistake, and then change and start genuinely helping people and undo the damage she's caused. Because her underlying motivation: wanting to help people, doesn't need to change, she just needs to reconcile it with the desire to be popular and slutty and realize they're opposed instead of synergistic. I suppose murderers can also change and become better people too, but it's a different kind of change and it's impossible to undo the harm they've already caused.
This is entirely consistent with the principle of "shame Aella and jail murderers" rather than the other way around. But the shame on Aella should be tempered by education and a hope that she herself learns from her mistakes instead of just having the shamers by maximally cruel to make her suffer and hate them and reject what they say.
(which is were they roll the credits and probably marks around 30% of the games content)
For real? Or are you exaggerating here? I stopped playing after the first ending on the assumption that I had seen most of what it had to offer and the remaining puzzle threads that I had discovered but not yet solved seemed pedantic and annoyingly completionist and I didn't think I would have the patience to grind through them just to get a "true" ending.
But if there's literally more than half the game remaining (in terms of actual content, not merely playtime spent grinding runs hoping to get lucky) then I might pick it back up.
The courts should do their jobs and not do someone else's job. There's no contradiction here. It's not about the total magnitude of their power, as if there's some number that should be summed up over all the things they do and try to make sure the sums line up, it's about jurisdiction. The role of the judiciary is to interpret the law as written and intended, and apply it to individual cases, which are frequently weird and contain many facts and details that might make them edge cases or involve multiple laws that need to be combined together.
If the law doesn't say a thing and an activist judge pretends that it does by inventing new definitions for words that clearly were not what those words meant when the law was written, then they are legislating their own new laws, not actually judging. If judges go to some agency run by unelected non-judges and asks them to interpret the law for them, then those people are the judges, and the elected judges are not actually judging. They're supposed to judge, not legislate, not outsource.
I think this is typically handwaved away by assuming that if we, as humans, manage to solve the original alignment problem, then an AI with 100x human intelligence will be smart enough to solve the meta-alignment problem for us. You just need to be really really really sure that the 100x AI is actually aligned and genuinely wants to solve the problem rather than use it as a tool to bypass your restrictions and enact its secret agenda.
I am not a legal expert. I don't know the actual legal technicalities of "reasonable articulable suspicion". But at least taking a common sense definition of the words, "There is a serial killer drowning babies in wicker baskets, this man is on the marina with a wicker basket" is trivially "articulable", and seems eminently reasonable to me given the circumstances. Who uses wicker baskets? If the officer had no reason for suspicion then why did he call you in the first place? My understanding was that this was to prevent officers from searching people because "I dunno, he seemed kind of suspicious", not "I have a clear reason to suspect this guy in particular of a specific crime (and being the perpetrator of the same crime multiple times in the past) for a specific reason".
In most non-rpgs clothing doesn't imbue stats, so you can just wear whatever you want and there's no dilemma to fix.
I don't believe Minecraft dungeons does this (without mods?) but I have seen games that let you have two layers of armor: a mechanical one that's actually officially equipped, and a fashion one that determines your appearance. So you can have the best of both (and I think to incentivize players to buy fancy cosmetic armor with real money). I don't remember what game(s) this was, I think I've seen it more than once but not very often.
I think the point is that NATO, knowing they have nukes and are willing to use them, would choose not to invade in the first place. They still die in a hypothetical world where NATO wants the world to end. They live in the world where NATO doesn't want the world to end and chooses not to invade them, because they have nukes.
The issue, as they point out, is that outcomes are heterogeneous. If the outcome is a combination of your decision and random noise and circumstance outside of your control, then outcome will be weakly correlated with the actual value you provide. Half of punishments and rewards will be deserved, and half will be simply responding to the whim of fate.
If your punishment/reward mechanism is long-term enough, like say the profits of a company that can accumulate over time and wash out the negatives with positives, then risky but positive expectation behaviors will work. If your mechanism is "fire any CEO who has a year with negative profit, no matter why it turned out negative" then you're likewise going to incentivize conservative behavior that guarantees the bare minimum at the cost of unlucky but smart people who take risks with positive expected value.
I have been using Suno AI to make music about silly events and inside jokes that amuse me. I have a song about my favorite character in Gloomhaven, a song about how much I hate snow, a song about my wife being a loot goblin in a game, a song making fun of some redneck who harassed my brother, a song about a tiny plant my wife got in a toilet-shaped pot that we put on top of our toilet, etc...
Most of them sound like real songs you might hear on the radio. Nothing super profound, but not terrible. Well, actually probably 80% of the time it's terrible, but as usual with AI you discard the garbage and retry and reprompt until you get something good. Occasionally I write the lyrics myself from scratch, but most of the time I prompt Chat GPT on a topic and then tweak the lyrics to fit the context better before giving them to Suno to make a song. It's wonderful, and I am gradually accumulating a playlist of actually good songs that mean something to me.
Deporting people physically is super easy: you load them up on a plane and drop them off outside the country. Gone, someone else's problem. I do concede that deporting people ethically, humanely, and politically can be hard if you don't know where they came from so you don't know which country to drop them off in and the country doesn't agree to accept them.
But the plan with the temporary worker visas would ideally happen simultaneous with a massive increase in border security. Make it super easy for people to enter on cheap temporary worker visas, which require them to register where they come from and where they are going to live and work while in the country. Then if they overstay or violate the conditions of their visa you know where they live and where they came from (not just the country but even have them register a home town or city for them to return to when they leave) and then you expeditiously drop them back off at their literal home in their old country. And then anyone still trying to cross the border despite the ease of acquiring a visa is way less sympathetic because they're clearly trying to circumvent the proper procedure, so you can meet them or deport them with more force and get less public backlash.
That seems like a massive incentive for people to want to touch American soil. And either a ridiculous strain on the ability for America to care for all of its citizens, or more likely a decrease in the standard of care. Americans get really really really mad if foreigners harm American citizens, its a really scary threat of war. If literal billions of people can take a boat ride to America, touch its soil, then go back home a citizen, we can't protect them all from their actual nations. Either America gets dragged into every way because both nations are filled with dual-citizen honorary Americans, or we can't do that anymore and actual Americans have a lot fewer rights when traveling abroad.
Amend it.
I'm imagining a hypothetical solution which would solve the actual dilemma of [People from third world countries want to come here to make lots of money (relative to what they can make back home)] + [Employers here want cheap labor] + [Many citizens here don't want to be overrun and outvoted by lower class and culturally foreign people with no long term investment in this nation or its continuity]. It requiring a constitutional amendment is yet one more reason why it's politically infeasible. No way the pro immigration people would ever allow that. But it would still solve most of the issues of the actual foreigners who want to come work here, since we could let many more of them in legally if they didn't carry all the costs of proper citizens: ie are guaranteed working and exempt from all the expensive social services and could be easily deported if they cause problems.
Not politically viable, but if the issue is the economy then the obvious solution is to just make worker visas that let them bypass minimum wage laws. Get a bunch of workers to come and work for the cheap jobs that nobody wants to do for low money, but they still have to pay taxes, don't get to have anchor babies, and they eventually leave when it expires and return with piles of money to their families back home.
My wife uses it for identifying plants. Every spring we have a bunch of stuff start sprouting up in the garden and she's not sure what's a weed that needs to be plucked and what's a flower that survived/seeded from last year that we might as well keep. But the phone knows, even when they're tiny little sprouts with a couple of leaves.
It's called the "grandfather of isekai" for a reason. Not that it was the first ever isekai, but that it was fairly early, and so fantastic that everyone wanted to copy it, and also made a bunch of people want to make isekai and read isekai. The only reason I got into the genre was because Mushoku Tensei was the best story I've ever read and I wanted to find more stuff like it, although everything since hasn't quite lived up to it (some of the better ones come close).
To be clear, he never fundamentally changes who he is as a person. He starts as a creepy pervert who steals panties, molests sleeping girls, and tries to groom his childhood friend, and progresses into a mostly harmless pervert who respects boundaries, asks for consent, has multiple wives but doesn't cheat on them, doesn't steal additional panties anymore even when offered on a silver platter by his minions, and keeps his panty shrine in the basement where others don't have to see it (also, it's less creepy after they're married, though only slightly).
He's still the same person, he still has the same desires, but he learns how to channel them into unharmful ways. I suppose you could say the lesson this teaches is "You're not automatically a bad person if you're a pervert, you just have to curtail the parts that actually harm the people around you. You can enjoy yourself AND be a good person if you do it correctly." Which, while highly controversial, seems like an excellent lesson to teach people, especially people with similar proclivities.
The best story I have ever read is Mushoku Tensei. The original webnovel, although I believe the light novel is just a more edited and refined version of it (and the anime is also fantastic although it skips a lot of the deeper worldbuilding and isn't finished yet).
A lot of people bounce off of it, because first of all it's very japanese weeb anime harem. And the main character starts off as a creepy pervert scumbag with some very uncomfortable behaviors that turn a lot of people off. And the story does not smite him down with the force of a thousand suns. It gives him time. It lets him grow and change and learn and slowly become a better person. Slowly, there isn't ever a moment where the story tells him "no, you were bad and now you have to do a 180 and become the opposite and shun everything you once were." It's about redemption through slow and gradual growth and understanding. And also building a harem of cute anime waifus, there is still that, so it's not actually a story for everyone. But it basically mastered the isekai genre before it was even a proper genre, and every generic isekai slop to come out has been cargo culting features from Mushoku Tensei without understanding why they were there in the first place.
I highly recommend it. It's super long, it has a single broad overarching plot that was planned for from the very beginning rather than the author flailing around inventing new plot threads every arc, and it masterfully sets up characters and plot elements in early chapters that show up again way later in interesting ways. And it subverts a lot of tropes too and does stuff with the main character and villain and side characters that I haven't seen in other stories. It's not for everyone, but people who do like it it really really really like it. It's my favorite story ever, so I recommend it.
The self-doubt in Empire Strikes Back and The Last Jedi always felt really weird to me. Like, Luke is never actually tempted by the dark side. There is nothing the dark side ever has to offer him that he wants, he never struggles with his darker tendencies. It's just people warning him "Darth Vader used to be on our side, then he turned evil, and you remind me of him". There's never actually any reason for him to turn, and never any threat that the audience could take seriously of it happening, even without plot armor. Even if he did obey the Emperor and strike down Darth Vader in anger, there's no plausible reason he would switch sides, he'd just strike down the Emperor too.
I think it's mostly just there to make it more cathartic when he does it the other way around and converts Darth Vader. But it's still weird how everyone in universe takes it so seriously.
The ideal temperature for human comfort is around 20C, which is why people set their thermostats around there. Anyone setting their thermostats to anything meaningfully distant from ~20C is doing it to save money. If you're outdoors, you maybe want a bit more if it's windy, or a bit less if it's sunny or you're doing a lot of physical activity, but you want the sum of all effects to average you back so your individual subjective feeling is around 20C.
Whatever combination of sunny/cloudy/rainy gets you closer to 20C is the ideal weather for your region.
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