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Pasha

Defend Kebab

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joined 2022 September 05 06:58:22 UTC 

				
User ID: 481


				
				
				

			

		

	














	


		


			



	

		

			

			

				

					

						

							
						

						

							
							

								
Pasha


								

								

								
								
								

								
							
					
 
				


				
Defend Kebab

				
				
				

				

					1 follower  

					follows 3 users  

					joined 2022 September 05 06:58:22 UTC
				


				
					

					
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User ID: 481


					
					
					
				

			


					

						
					



		

	

 











			
			

			
			

			




	


		

			
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				Culture War Roundup for the week of March 27, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


So I thought the Armenian is just a collision without deeper meaning, the sort of dissonance that all ideologies have to paper over occasionally




For most Turkish people the Armenian genocide represents mainly a time period when outside powers set out to destroy or dominate us, and used the ethnic fractures of the Empire for their ends. The feeling is that they were treacherous at our time of need, and things that happened were unpleasant but deserved and just. So when the topic is brought up it is done so in bad faith and as a tool of domination and therefore the response must be harsh and uncompromising because that is what high asabiyyah communities do when they are under attack. So there is no dissonance in people's minds. I can write further later about how this attitude has formed since until 70s-80s it was well known and accepted by virtually everyone what happened in 1915 and there was no such fighting over history.




Am I understanding you right?




Yes I think so. People still vacation back in Turkey almost every summer, watch Turkish TV at home, find marriage partners from back in the village (even instead of other local Turks), socialize their kids at mosques etc. There is very strong emotional connection. I think in the case of America, the cultural and economical power of the country is so immense that no immigrant group can resist almost total assimilation in a generation. Germany, Belgium etc lack such a strong culture and the will to create one so they are failing to break the cohesion of most groups who can't find themselves a place in the overarching American superstructure. It creates a large opening for the Turkish state to exploit. Often it is not even that cynical, the immigrants themselves really want the attention and the sense of belonging and will complain how Turkey should do even more to stay connected with them!


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Quality Contributions Report for December 2022
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


It's quite clear the revisionist poster is arguing their case more successfully because of Motte norms, not because of some inherent virtue in their argument




What are these norms that gives one side so much more argument power?




merely to clog the argument with so many extraneous facts




Most of those long-winded comments are simply replies to people asking about many specific details or very broad questions such as "what about the victim accounts?". It is also really not a good look that most of the "pro" arguments got defeated so easily in detail. This forum doesn't lack people who can write walls of text about the most mundane things. There should be someone around who can spend half the time they spend on complaining about nazis in this forum to put forward some irrefutable high quality arguments and then link that every time the revisionism rears its head.




that they cannot be all effectively refuted, leaving you the 'winner' in the debate.




This is not a good portrayal of the discussions in the link. I don't know if the revisionist dude is actually a Nazi in disguise but it is not difficult to see that they believe substantially less Jews than the official history numbers were murdered (or died due to poor treatment/conditions) and that this was done in ways and reasons largely aligned with why other tens of millions of people were getting murdered (or dying due to poor treatment/conditions) at the time. Hence the extreme attention on details such as gas chambers being a fabrication, high death tolls from typhus and allied bombing, lack of direct orders, unreliability of many accounts, reprisals being considered a legitimate instrument of war at the time etc etc. He is trying to make the point that the treatment of the Jews was largely in line with the other monstrosities of the period, many of them perpetrated or allowed by the Allies. It makes sense when you see it from the perspective of someone who thinks Holocaust shouldn't be the central event of the Western moral universe, or who is trying to genuinely subvert that moral universe. Maybe because of pathological contrarianism or maybe because they think this moral universe is inherently against people like themselves. Certainly wouldn't be the first person to realize the unique status of the Holocaust above any other 20th century atrocity puts right-wing movements at quite a bind in the West.


Perhaps it makes sense to me because I wasn't taught the Holocaust in school as a very significant event and it doesn't carry the same emotional load for me.




If the original poster asking the question ended up being downvoted, why do you think I would fare any better?




Why do you bother to comment on anything if you don't believe most people on Motte try to act somewhat fairly with their votes? You could also get dogpiled here.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of January 2, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


I see them as bolstering the Vysehrad Tendency: in favour of the EU, but also strong on sovereignty issues, especially regarding borders




I strongly doubt this. Given how extraordinarily they will be indebted to the US and EU at the end of the war, I don’t think Ukraine will be at any position to have a political spine against the EU institutions. Something like Romania is much more likely. Very corrupt country going totally under the radar in the EU institutions since they vote with German line on every issue.


But of course no EU entrant country, not even Bulgaria, was as demographically, politically, economically fucked up as Ukraine. It’s also quite a large and populous country in comparison so I have doubts if the EU can spare funds necessary for its development even if they wanted. So this whole saga might also develop into a strange farce by time.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				What caused the Nord Stream pipline explosions?
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


Also attacking an EU and NATO country isn't exactly going to be positive for the support of the rest of them or probably even the US.




I suggest you take a look at this page.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident


A country that has enough pull or support in American foreign policy and intelligence establishment can get away with virtually anything. Some evidence surfaces against Ukraine? It will be dismissed or classified. The media will basically ignore it and allude to Putin propaganda. Anyone who still remembers any of this will be seen as conspiracy cranks after 1-2 years.




The other problem for Ukraine attacking is that it would be rather hard for them to pull off.




I find this line of argumentation very irrelevant. Ukraine doesn't have to send some warship from Odessa to circumvent Gibraltar and drop depth charges. It is a very lean operation and this sort of underwater infrastructure is notoriously quite fragile. Pretty much the entire area is full of CIA black sites and countries that hate Russia and the Nordstreams at least as much as Ukraine. If there is a will there is definitely a way.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of April 15, 2024
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Yes of course. Syria and Afghanistan experienced devastation and migration outflows at a much bigger scale yet you don’t see many Syrian or Afghan prostitutes/gold diggers.


My point wasn’t that this situation didn’t exist before the war. It’s that, this situation exists! It got hyper turbo charged because of the war. It can’t be dismissed as silly propaganda


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Friday Fun Thread for February 16, 2024
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
What stereotypes do people have about Turks?


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of August 14, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
I get the impression that regular holocaust narrative, where it’s the most heinous crime in human history bestowing endless moral authority to the god’s chosen people ultimate victim, is on its way out. It cannot survive pop intersectionalism. There are too many victim groups with a stake in the pie and they don’t have the baggage of having to defend Israel’s right to take over a land by treating its inhabitants as untermenschen and concentrating them in ghettos.


In the near future any slander against the holocaust narrative from the wrong people will still be a big taboo but it will be the “allies” with their own holocaust claims and grievances who will dilute the moral authority of the holocaust.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				"What if your entire worldview was just because of near-zero interest rates?"
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Real estate?


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Friday Fun Thread for November 11, 2022
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Watched the first three episodes of house of the dragon. Does it get any better? So far the whole thing was incredibly boring and badly written.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of October 31, 2022
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Rule by emergency law and decree has been fast becoming the norm across the western world. Savvy political actors are now realising this and the opportunities this can create in a myriad of areas that always annoyed the ruling classes. Labour action and not being able to pay below survival level salaries to unskilled labourers have long been one of those sticking points, especially since we decided any real manufacturing is beneath the white people so unskilled workers are just an annoyance to our economic systems.


So I don’t think this abuse of procedure is as absurd as you might think. Other provincial elites are likely watching it with great interest and considering the potential gains if it succeeds.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of April 15, 2024
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
For Ukraine, while air defence against drones and cruise misiles is important, keeping Russian bombers away from the frontlines is absolutely crucial. It’s quite clear that Russia can’t mass produce the first in numbers big enough to really win the war. But they have a world class air force and basically infinite supply of bombs to be retrofitted as glide bombs if there is no concern for planes getting shut down.


If the Russian air force gets free rein over the frontline then the war is over. Due to a mix of inherited Soviet air defense (which was quite substantial as Soviet western armies had enormous stockpiles from what I understand), gifts systems from the west and manpads the Russian planes were essentially missing.


This is changing rapidly right now and there is big panic on the Ukrainian side. It should be visible to the leadership that the loss ratios are becoming untenable and the fortifications just can’t stand.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Small-Scale Question Sunday for February 18, 2024
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
I have a hard time imagining why the early adapters of Reddit thought how it could ever be a good idea to consolidate the internet forum ecosystem into a single massive website. What was the perceived benefit here? These forums and communities already existed, Reddit didn’t even create them.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Wellness Wednesday for January 10, 2024
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Should I ask how you that they are great?


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Small-Scale Question Sunday for December 10, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Is the book any good? I read some about the Arab Israeli conflict before but I am always annoyed how every author skirts around the central fact of the entire conflict: Jews are extremely competent again and again while Arabs are extraordinarily incompetent. It’s disturbing how every book casually takes it for granted that one idf tank battalion is worth about 3 Syrian battalions. I would love to read something that doesn’t try to blindside me to this reality


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of November 27, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
The price of your house going down is a really big problem if you:


    

  1. still owe a large part of the mortgage and suddenly you are financially in negative. Especially if this happens around a time you need some financial breathing room (like switching to a bigger house to grow your family)
    2. 

  2. took on debt that depend on your house price to finance your lifestyle. Shockingly common in many countries
    3. 



				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of October 9, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
It is hilarious that preferential voting which was a Reddit fan favourite of 2010s and was surely going to herald true democracy…. ended up creating more backroom politics


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of October 2, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Israel has been restrained because it is indeed fighting for the subjugation of a population with a size equivalent to its own. The alternative to restraint is not killing "at least a substantial number of violent young men", it is genocide. The definition of "violent young men who might take up arms against Israel if provoked enough" is "99% of Palestinian men". In a society like Palestinians intentionally or unintentionally killing someone is enough to convince a dozen of their male relatives to swear an eternal oath of revenge against you and genuinely pursue this.


I generally sympathize with Israel much more than Arabs instinctively because I perceive them as civilized people dealing with barbarians (a specific type of Islamic barbarity that I personally have reasons to specifically hate). If Israelis become another tribe of barbarians engaged in genocidal clan war then I simply do not care.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of June 12, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
I am not so convinced by this. Ukrainians also have to tie down forces and equipment to create such a reaction. They cannot use their air assets as much so rapid deployment of force is even more difficult for them.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of June 12, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


I think that keeping the war going is a way to avoid Putin's regime failing militarily as well as in other respects.




https://meduza.io/en/feature/2023/06/03/the-only-thing-worse-than-war-is-losing-one


I think most Russians are convinced (imo rightly) that their fate will be closer to Germans after WW1 instead of Germans after WW2 if they lose. I would wager that there are a lot more people who support fighting to victory now compared to before the war, so Putin's regime doesn't have much of a choice.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of June 12, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Is the argument here that the US was upholding some important international norm when they kept ridiculous corrupt occupation governments in Iraq and Afghanistan for decades to the great detriment of their populations, and then left them as smoldering ruins refusing to take any responsibility?


Many observers in important positions around the World deducted from these events that American leaders don't give a shit about any of their rhetoric, are short-sighted, unreliable, agreement-incapable and live in their own media narrative where they are always right in the end. They will make up norms when it suits them and adjust them mid-game if it doesn't suit them anymore.


Unfortunately I believe Ukrainians are due to discover this as well after sacrificing their youth and their relations with their only important neighbor for drip-fed fickle promises.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of May 15, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Can't point to hard data, but as I lived through 2000s and 2010s in Turkey I can definitely say people had quite a lot of optimism about the future roughly between 2005-2015. Combination of strong economic growth as well as a positive ideological framework for the future changes (increasing liberalism and EU membership in our case) can really work some serious magic.


Both of factors basically disappeared since in most of the world. Few countries have experienced significant consistent economic growth in the last decade (China, US and Israel as exceptions), let alone productivity growth. Also neo-liberal borderless capitalism and almost limitless human liberty through internet does not function as the great ideology of the age as it used to anymore. The economic crash killed the belief in the first and the Arab Spring in the second.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of January 2, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


Though some splinters remain (some very obvious nazi groups), the model the diaspora coalesced on by the 50s, which became state policy 8 years ago, is a multi-ethnic national state. Rudnytsky, Hrushevsky, Lypynsky etc. are taught in school




Would be happy to know more about the significance of these people and the meaning of "multi-ethnic" in your usage. Which multi ethnicities are we talking about exactly?


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of January 2, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Excuse my gen-z-ness or being new to American internet but what’s worldstar? Why do people shout that in such videos?


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Wellness Wednesday for December 21, 2022
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
I used to enjoy traveling A LOT before corona. Had a couple very long duration scarcely planned backpacking/hitchhiking trips far from home and by far the best things I have ever done in my life. Corona restrictions and later "life" got in the way a bit but I want to start again. I had some nice niche sources especially for Latin America for finding interesting places and events which aren't too touristy, or simply people who have interesting travel blogs/vlogs and can inspire (like the legendary Honda c90 world travelling guy or Bald and Bankrupt etc). Now I am struggling to find anything like that for Europe and Middle East.


Google became hot garbage for this and YouTube not much better either. Anything I come across is very commercialized and highly edited. But I know for sure there must be still blogs or youtubers or books or forums out there for people like me. Any tips??


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Small-Scale Question Sunday for November 13, 2022
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Can an American please explain to me how very long voting queues can be an issue in practice? So from what I understand this happens in very Democratic urban polities, where both voters and the politicians are Democrats. Why not make it as easy as possible for your own voters to vote? Is it just incompetence?