Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
"...Perhaps laughter will then have formed an alliance with wisdom; perhaps only 'gay science' will remain."
User ID: 342
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
3d ago
Again, why is the onus on the men to settle, here?
Because female bodies have value, and male bodies do not. You belong to the less valuable half of the human species. We just had a whole ass thread on this.
Although it should be pointed out, said thread also included a post from a woman who said that she felt like she's the one who has to settle, so, maybe the grass on the other side isn't as green as you think it is.
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
3d ago
I don't see how anybody is expected to do it if they haven't already these days!
I mean it's not that bad.
I was at a wedding for an early 30s guy not too long ago. Perfectly unremarkable dude in every way. Average looks, barely a penny to his name, floats in and out of odd jobs. But he's genuinely pleasant and easy to talk to, and he knows people everywhere, and I mean everywhere, he will be in random states he's never been to before and he's still bumping into people he knows. When you talk to a lot of people and play the numbers game then it's easy to meet potential partners.
The bride was admittedly a chubster, which is apparently the kiss of death for a lot of people here, but, c'est la vie.
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
3d ago
It's a pregnancy risk, sure, but, life's full of risks. One of my ex's whole family was fat af, and they managed to reproduce.
Maybe next time before you pass on a fat girl, you could give her a chance for a little while, with the idea of suggesting Ozempic or an exercise plan once the relationship is more established? Just a thought. Could help widen your pool of available options a bit.
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
3d ago
You don't actually know how to "git gud".
Ah, but I never said I did! All I said was two simple words: "git gud". You see the difference, yes?
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
3d ago
Some of them became single moms, some decided to get into deeper debt for a master's degree, some of them got fat.
Again with the fat, it's always the fat... is it really that much of a dealbreaker?
I think fat girls are sexy af, so I'm biased, and I'm aware my biases are not shared by everyone. But, it can't be that bad, right?
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
3d ago
Single, childless, drifting somewhat aimlessly, generally an emotional wreck on a daily basis. But what of it?
You see, no one ever likes to be told to "git gud", so there's a readymade generic counterargument you can always deploy against any assertion of "git gud". I see this in lots of domains, not just dating, it happens all the time in competitive games for instance. First you ascertain how gud the "git gudder" actually is, and then you have two options. If they're gud, then you say "well yeah, easy for you to say, you're already gud, and you probably got there by luck or natural talent anyway, so you don't know what it's like to suffer as someone who's not gud". If they're not gud, then you say "well what do you know anyway, you don't know anything about being gud, so just stay out of it."
So you see, the gudness of the git gudder matters not, because people will always just reject the message anyway. But it matters not. "Git gud" always reigns supreme in the end, for it is the truth.
Obviously if someone is giving concrete step by step advice on how to do XYZ, then it's reasonable to ask for their credentials. But attitude and intent are freely available to all the fortunate and unfortunate alike. Avail yourself of them.
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
3d ago
Of course, I keep pointing this out to @Primaprimaprima, and they keep ignoring the point to drill down to individual solutions, which as we see are just not viable.
Bit of an odd way of phrasing it, considering I just wrote a post a few days ago where I said "we need to look at structural factors for the downturn in dating and not just individual factors".
So why, in spite of that, do you perhaps perceive that I still put a strong emphasis on individual factors?
One of my biggest pet peeves is whining. I can't stand whining. I'm empathetic to a great many things, I pride myself on my ability to consider things from other people's perspectives in fact, but even then, my sympathy has limits. And one of the fastest ways to make me lose sympathy for your cause is for you to start whining about it. We've all got a sob story, and rare is the stranger who will care about yours.
There's a very fine line between whining, and suffering just the right amount of righteous indignation so that you're actually motivated to go out and do something about what's bothering you. A very fine line indeed. It's a tough line to navigate, it requires judgement. We would never be motivated to change anything at all if we didn't suffer some sort of emotional wound. And "doing something" may, indeed, involve enlisting other people to our cause. But you have to thread the needle where you manage to do all that without being a bitch about it.
I'm not criticizing lonely men from the outside. I'm on the inside with all of you! I have a long history of being spectacularly unsuccessful with women. Like, actually embarrassing shit that I still cringe about when I remember years later. I'm a weirdo autist, I can't hold a normal conversation with a normal human. Women, predictably, find these traits repellent. So I know what it's like to suffer.
But I don't just go bitch and moan in the corner about how the world's unfair and how people should like me more and how we need "communism for pussy" as @HughCaulk so eloquently put it. What I do instead is I look in the mirror and say, "I'm a weirdo autist. That's not going to change. That's what we have to work with. So it's time to figure out how to make the best of that, rather than getting all mopey about it."
You are, apparently, suffering from some financial troubles. I'm genuinely sorry to hear that. But there are lots of poor people who fuck, y'know? There are poor people fucking right now, as we speak. There are even poor people in committed long term relationships. You could be one of them. What's stopping you?
It always comes back to your attitude, y'know? Forget about the structural and the individual and the historical and the metapsychological and whatever the fuck else it is. Think about your attitude first. Are you happy with your attitude, or are you being a bitch? Start there.
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
3d ago
those are requirements to date the actually desirable girls.
What do you consider to be an actually desirable girl, exactly? Just curious. Because I feel like my own criteria is not the norm.
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
3d ago
What dating crisis? This is just the almighty hand of the free market at work. Standards are high, as they inevitably will be when all parties are equally free to enter into voluntary associations.
We need to take "collective action as a society" to remove impediments to men's access to women (including, presumably, the "ugly, mean, and poor bottom 50%" of men) -- yeah, ok, have you asked the women how they feel about that? "I have this plan that will make it more likely for you to date someone who's ugly, mean, and poor". Wtf that's a terrible sales pitch.
Guaranteed monogamy for all is nothing more than the socialized ownership of the means of reproduction.
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
4d ago
I'm not left of center, but I'll comment anyway.
Of course he's correct. Of course people want to feel like underdogs, of course they want to feel like they have their own "secret club" that the Squares In Power don't have access to. Like, duh. The right is very much not immune to this. Being the underdog lends moral credibility to your cause, it galvanizes your base, there's an intrinsic thrill to the feeling of powerlessness itself, etc.
But, and here's the kicker, all of this applies to the left too. And he's so close to getting it, he's describing everything perfectly, "for the right it's really all about their libidinal investment in their own symbolic matrix of floating signifiers, they love the struggle itself more than what they struggle for, the goal of every political cause is ultimately just to reproduce itself", and I'm nodding along going yes yes yes... but then he has to tack on, "but of course the left isn't like this at all, when we talk about microaggressions it's just a purely rational response to objective conditions of oppression, there's nothing libidinal to analyze there, no siree", and I'm like... no you were so close! Everything you were saying about the right applies to the left too, they're exactly the same in this regard.
I not infrequently have this experience when reading posts from leftists, where they're right on the ball and they're so close to understanding everything, and then at the last minute they veer off into "...but of course, we are Good and they are Evil, and that is the chasm that separates us". Their ideology is axiomatically predicated on the explicit denial of this aspect of their own psyche, so they remain forever blind to it.
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
4d ago
The problem with freeing and protecting women from men is that you must also free and protect women from women. … the propaganda about men being the real evil exists specifically to confuse these women about this issue
Huh?
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
4d ago
In complete seriousness, when guys complain that it would be so nice to have a body with intrinsic value in others' eyes, why do they not explore the many places where this is already true?
It's a good question!
So, this is something that happens from time to time, straight men going into various types of gay spaces for attention and validation. And I have occasionally heard a few straight men say they wish they were gay, because it seems like it would be easier. But obviously for the majority of straight men, these are hard limits, they would never even think about going there.
My whole post was basically about how the whole "intrinsic value" thing has both good aspects and bad aspects. It's not a panacea (but it's not a uniquely awful tragedy either). So a man who thought that getting lots of free sexual attention would somehow solve his problems would be making the same mistake as the overly-bitter feminist who imagines that men have access to a special level of existential authenticity that she is forbidden.
What breaks the symmetry in your example is the fact that straight women do, actually, find at least some men attractive some of the time. Some of the attention she gets throughout her life will be from creepy undesirables. But some of it will be from men who are genuinely attractive, and who she may be attracted to in turn, and who she may judge to be good romantic partners. Drawbacks, but also benefits; thinking about the whole dynamic over the course of a lifetime, rather than just one night at the club. A straight man getting attention from gay men has a zero percent chance of ever finding any of the potential suitors desirable, which obviously puts a different spin on the experience. It's the difference between "lots of people want something of value from me, and some of them may be able to pay a fair price" and "lots of people want something of value from me, and none of them will be able to pay a fair price".
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
4d ago
Yes, but that was the whole point of the comment you were replying to. “You think being able to get sexual attention from men (many of whom will in fact be gross and old) is so great? Well, how would YOU like some male sexual attention?”
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
5d ago
Well, y’know, it actually does! Every social practice that humans have ever engaged in throughout history has confirmed this fact.
So a man has to find something with which to supplement his value. This is no Herculean task, the barrier is very much intended to be surmountable. There are many types of goods and labors that men exchange for access to women’s bodies. But the point is that he has to find something; he’s not born with it.
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
5d ago
Well, the actual, true, final TERF position is that women should live in lesbian communes and men should go fuck off in a ditch somewhere.
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
5d ago
Men appear to enjoy sex more than women.
Yes, and why do you think that is? It’s not just a random coincidence. It’s rooted in the fact that a man’s reproductive resources are very cheap and a woman’s are very scarce.
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
5d ago
You know that it’s men who pay for access to women’s bodies, rather than the other way around, right?
Revealed preferences, look at what people do not what they say, etc.
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
5d ago
Treating people as if they are not different on the basis of sex is going to... require treating people as if they are not different on the basis of sex!
The standard TERF position for decades has been that sex is a biological reality, but gender should be abolished. The unique vulnerability of female bodies as compared to male bodies necessitates certain accommodations like female-only spaces, but most aspects of “gender roles” can and should be done away with. You could argue that this is a fine line to walk, but I at least think it’s internally consistent.
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
5d ago
Hm, does Compact have any links to the German magazine of the same name?
I don’t think so, no. Although funny enough, the name “Compact” comes from the idea of a “new compact” between left and right. Social conservatism and economic socialism. One might say that it’s rather… third positionist. (Although in practice most of their takes are very basic bitch and milquetoast.)
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
5d ago
Musk-level value was OP’s analogy
I said it was a "heavily attenuated" version of that. It was just an analogy, not meant to be taken literally.
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
5d ago
I simply think it has an appeal to men who don't feel they've got a shot at the real thing.
And does it have appeal to you?
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
5d ago
Without actual, real life women being willing to settle down
But that's not true. There are lots of women who are settling down with lots of men as we speak.
And 5 years down the road the married guy got divorced, maybe has a kid, and suddenly finds himself alone
You're trying to rationalize how the AI could be "just as good" or "not as dangerous" as the real thing, because you know that the AI is obviously worse.
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
5d ago
Otherwise, what is 'wrong' with letting the AI fill in that particular gap?
You'll always feel inferior to men who were able to build a relationship with a real woman. It'll gnaw at you.
Primaprimaprima
...something all admit only "TRUMP", and the Trump Administration, can do.
5d ago
AI girlfriends (and boyfriends) have already one-shotted some of the more mentally vulnerable of the population.
Talking to an AI feels like trying to tickle yourself. I don’t get it at all.
When I was a kid I used to be somewhat surprised that there were older people who had never played a video game, had no interest in ever trying a video game, they were perfectly fine with never playing one, etc. And I was like, how can that be? How can you not even be curious? I suppose video games just got popular at a point in their lives when their brains were no longer plastic enough or something. And I suppose I’ve hit that point with new technology now as well.
I can’t enjoy talking to an AI when I know that I’m in control and it’s trying to “please” me. Even if I told it, “oh by the way, try and add some variance, maybe get moody sometimes and don’t do what I ask”, the knowledge that at the end of the day I’m still the one in control ruins it. I suppose if we imagine a scenario where the AI is so realistic that I never get suspicious, and you’re able to trick me into thinking I’m talking to a real human, then sure, ex hypothesi there’s nothing to distinguish it from a human at that point and I would enjoy it. But short of that? Not for me.
There was a Sirling-era episode of the Twilight Zone where a bank robber died and went to Heaven. Angel tells him that he’s made it, he can have anything he wants for all eternity. So the dude lives out all sorts of wish fulfillment scenarios, winning big at gambling, beautiful women, some bank heists, etc. But he gets bored fast, says something is missing. There’s no danger to any of it, no bite, he wins every time. Angel says “well you can set whatever parameters you want. We can make it so there’s a 50% chance of your next robbery failing”. Guy says “no no, it’s still not the same. Look, I don’t think I’m cut out for Heaven. I’m a scumbag. I want to go to the other place”. Angel says, “I think you’ve been confused. This IS the other place.”
That’s what AI “relationships” feel like to me.
Well, appealing for me, at any rate!
(Not the single mom part though. That's one of the few things that actually is a hard limit for me.)
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