Rosencrantz2
1d ago
I also often favour movies where all the 'differences from reality' appear to flow from the concept of the movie itself. The more additional arbitrary tropes the movie includes the worse it can be. A schlocky Marvel movie has rules in addition to 'superheroes exist' such as 'there is no such thing as sex' and 'people banter a lot in dangerous situations' and indeed 'all women (and men) can fight really well'. There are reasons for these rules but they're mainly to do with appealing to a mass audience rather than artmaking. And genre movies basically are clusters of rules that are imposed in addition to a movie's guiding concept. (At least in good genre movies the makers understand the reason the rules have evolved, and use them for an overarching purpose however).
But all that said, this is about good art vs bad art, and if you try to do your learning about the world just based on bad art, it might not be too surprising if you don't learn too much.
Rosencrantz2
2d ago
It may be normal but if you are a truth-seeking type of person, taking fiction to reflect reality in this way feels like accepting that it should do. But should fiction accurately reflect the world? I would tentatively say no, though art is perhaps best if it's authentic to an earned worldview or moral sensibility of some kind.
Rosencrantz2
2d ago
I'm sure we all believe false things but tbh, to have reached this conclusion, this guy must be quite underdeveloped in certain aspects of intelligence, curiosity, and yes, even rationality. I think he comes across as blaming the world for giving him a false impression and thinks the world should change to fit his neurotype, whereas he might consider holding all his beliefs more lightly and questioning his assumptions a lot more. His argument might go a bit better if he gave examples of 'experts lying to his face'; rather, all his examples are Marvel-type movies and video games, which he should never have expected to map the real world in the first place.
Rosencrantz2
3d ago
Are we damaging our international relations or putting a stop to low-life's trying to come here take 'Murican (comic book) Jerbs. Are we just busting foreign activist-artists but no one is saying that part out loud?
Speaking as a somewhat lefty, artist-adjacent type, who could not be described as an activist but has lots of Trump-critical words published under my real name, I am much more reluctant to come to the states under a Trump administration and probably won't visit my extended family members there during this administration (I normally come every year, and normally turn up for remote work duties at least a bit while visiting). Whether most Motte readers would see that as constituting evidence of damage to international relations, or a welcome impact of the new anti-foreigner vibes, I don't know.
Rosencrantz2
15d ago
The question already excluded that.
Rosencrantz2
16d ago
The effect is similar to trolling because it's not going to happen and hasn't got a warm reaction even among Trump voters.
I don't think it is true trolling though.
If it somehow became a popular policy, would Trump drop it, as if it had all just been a joke to him all along? I somewhat doubt that.
Rosencrantz2
16d ago
Now you're talking about articles about polling, not polling. That is a different thing and I don't dispute at all that it is seeking to 'shape the conversation'.
I am not trying to insinuate you're a schizo conspiracy theorist (though now I am wondering if your anger is causing you to lump multiple things together as your enemy, when not all of them are the same).
Rosencrantz2
16d ago
I struggle to understand what their motives are here. Are you implying the pollsters are trying to help the democrats based on the theory that people turn out for a winner? I don't know what the basis for that theory is. It seems equally or more likely that over-estimating a candidate's popularity will lull them and their voters into a false sense of security. Based on this theory of polls, it would seem more likely the pollsters over-estimating Harris's polling were trying to favour the republicans.
I don't really see evidence to think either of these is the case though. Maybe they are just incompetent or too afraid of being outliers.
Rosencrantz2
16d ago
I don't think a total invasion of Ukraine made a great deal of sense either. Nonetheless, I don't think it's necessarily likely Russia would simply invade the Baltics. More likely is that they would practice 'hybrid warfare', attacking pipelines and shipping, conducting political interference in Baltic countries and probing for weaknesses, positioning themselves to take advantage of any fracture in NATO's resolve as and when the time comes.
Rosencrantz2
18d ago
Well, I guess this place is called the Motte for a reason! What a massive change of tack. If we accept that the middle east is actually secretly tolerant of homosexuality, but uses its anti-gay laws merely as an instrument of authoritarian rule to arrest agitators, well okay then. But that still sounds just as much like something a liberal should oppose (regardless whether or not the country in question has pride parades).
Rosencrantz2
18d ago
Again, they aren't mass-executing LGBTQ people or having concentrations camps, they simply don't celebrate it or want it rubbed in people's faces.
Isn't this flatly untrue though? People are imprisoned for homosexuality for many years in many middle eastern countries (Iraq, Kuwait, Qatar, Dubai, UAE), and executed or whipped in Iran and Saudi Arabia.
Rosencrantz2
20d ago
It's possible that, since the start of the war, the EU has supported Russia more than Ukraine via its imports of natural gas and oil.
I am struggling to determine if this is correct. It appears to be true insofar as it considers financial aid (not military or humanitarian aid) from EU institutions. If you include all types of aid, and include European countries themselves as donors (rather than EU bodies), it is not true, from what I can tell.
(1) https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/28489/ukrainian-military-humanitarian-and-financial-aid-donors/ (2) https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/24/eu-spends-more-russian-oil-gas-than-financial-aid-ukraine-report
Rosencrantz2
21d ago
Excellent summary.
Just because we're not there yet doesn't mean we can't get there in a year or two. It's hard to see how the trajectory from friends to enemies can be stopped because there likely will be further disagreements which Trump will pounce on and use to further the divide.
Rosencrantz2
22d ago
If you rule out something like that, what kind of international opinion-giving would be allowed, if any? He was presenting an argument on behalf of the UK government not pro or con a specific political party.
Rosencrantz2
23d ago
Yes possible -- "If that's what you think of me, then that's what I'll be."
The reality lines up with what you describe only it's not that slow. It's happening pretty fast and a significant fraction of the US and global and maybe even Russian populations think Trump is a Russian asset -- pretty shameless work if he is operating clandestinely. This is why I don't think he is -- a Russian asset would be more subtle and include some measure of compromise for added realism, such as minor criticism of Russia on occasion. Much more likely he is just an ideological sympathiser and whole hearted admirer of Putin's raw power.
Rosencrantz2
24d ago
I think Trump has lost the ability to telegram a message or accurately communicate his intentions at all though. Should Canada be developing nuclear arms to protect against the US? Who knows?
Moreover Trump has only been in power for a few weeks, so I don't think it's that strange for Zelenskyy to be blindsided by the discovery that in this case he really meant it.
Rosencrantz2
24d ago
Probably the majority of the 'realpolitik' posts are bent on avoiding the stating of plain facts such as that 'Russia is a totalitarian state that invaded a democracy'. If they could actually bite the bullet and describe reality as is, while also advocating that Ukraine should surrender (or all but), that would be an honest realpolitik position, but it's no coincidence that they also want to blame Ukraine and empathise with Russia. That is not realpolitik at all but moral justification.
Rosencrantz2
24d ago
Well, there's something in that especially in a school type scenario where attractiveness and status are perhaps most correlated, but I dunno if status is ever really simple. Venkatesh Rao has great material on this and the idea of keeping status deliberately illegible among a group:
https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/10/14/the-gervais-principle-iv-wonderful-human-beings/
Rosencrantz2
24d ago
What is happening if a woman is an excellent singer? A perfect mother? A physics professor? Isn't it the same thing, they are claiming status on some dimension but other hypothetical women want status to be primarily based on another axis. Status uncertainty.
If we stick to a situation where a group all share the same preference for what dimension should count most, like I dunno a hockey team. I think everyone respects the best player regardless of gender?
Not exactly sure how to isolate the difference you are talking about here. Perhaps you could give a clear example of a tall poppy situation with women where it is not a case of status uncertainty?
Rosencrantz2
25d ago
Surely men are constantly cut down for being tall poppies, it just depends on what dimensions you focus on. Threats can come in many forms – small but too smart would be an example of someone who might get ostracised. Certain social skills just happen to be more weighted dimensions for women than men. That's more complicated as harder to measure, but in large groups where higher status is not dependent on size and strength, equally complex games are going on with men (e.g. in politics).
Rosencrantz2
25d ago
There really are a lot of Russian talking points, aren't there? But don't you find it interesting to see how badly many quite smart people here want to believe in them? It's an endless task to try to engage with or counter all of it, nonetheless, I feel that the more misinformation and distortion I read here, the more I learn!
Rosencrantz2
25d ago
That but seriously! I don't think he's likely to suit up until the war is over at least on paper.
I think a Christian artist might get artworld support if their art was about their complex feelings toward Christianity or had some kind of critical lens, or maybe if it was by a Christian outsider or even mentally ill person and mixed in another culture or influences in novel ways. If it was primarily proselytising art, it wouldn't stand much of a chance though, especially if it was iconographic in the sense of emulating previous artists in already existing styles. Today's art world insists on newness above all. Not to say most 'tastemakers' of the 21st century aren't incredibly judgemental, they are, but they don't generally deny the incredible artistic output of christianity in centuries past, just today.
If you have got some good example of contemporary conservative Christian art that is uncelebrated, would you be willing to share? I'm genuinely interested.
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