SkookumTree
2yr ago
I understand the value of building a big friend group. If anything, I’ll wind up the 40yo virgin with the big friend group, following this strategy. It’s also a potential buffer against a lot of tragedy and other crap: if I do wind up dating anyone, there’s likely to be some kind of fucked-up shit with that. Two Aspies I know started out dating and had girls try to stab them. One blocked the knife; the other very nearly died from blood loss. Honestly, not so bad - we expect women to date their only natural predator. Stabbed guy made a full recovery: the wonders of modern medicine.
As far as the whole crap about 7’10” Gigachad: not really…unless you’re short, 5’4” or less, AND want someone that is both sane and not morbidly obese. If you’re short and jacked, you can get someone that holds a job, isn’t a danger to herself or others, and can do basic hygiene. If you’re on the spectrum…I haven’t seen men on the spectrum date unless they were 6’ tall and/or earned $250k+/year.
I don’t know how it goes if you are exceptionally charismatic or popular; just being the guy who’s got 30 people he can call and ask to hang out ain’t enough. It’s got to be closer to 300.
If your advice is ‘get some self-esteem; stop thinking that you have to settle so damn hard that there is a real risk of being killed, maimed, or thrown in jail’ I understand that - even if it cashes out to lifelong celibacy and a big social circle. Even so, advice on how to find someone who’s in what I believe to be my “league” in an ethical manner is pretty thin. Maybe there isn’t a way for an ugly employed autist to date women in his league without being predatory or at least slimy as hell, at least not in middle-class America. Like. If the morbidly obese single mom working the cashier at WalMart is your match on a very good day, and most of the people in your “league” are either in institutions or in and out of them? That’s hard: how do you date someone that’s in and out of the ER or the psych ward or the local jail or living in a group home without being a goddamn predator? I’m leaning towards “generally speaking, unless you’re similarly fucked up, you don’t”. Sure, it’s legal if they have the capacity to consent, but a lot of predatory shitbaggery is legal.
I also have another long-form comment about how in 21st-century America, Joe Median is a bad deal for Jane Median and it makes an imperial shitload of sense for Jane Median to go for Joe Above-Average. TL;DR dudes be dangerous and risky; best get compensation for that risk, provision and protection ain’t as important/gendered anymore.
SkookumTree
2yr ago
I’m saying yes, my league is so low that I can’t find any women in it I wouldn’t feel predatory trying to date. As for Ozempic, job, and shower: I’m a grad student, decently fashionable. Far from the unshaven, smelly, fat guy you envision. 5’6” and 160 pounds; while I’m no slouch in the weight room, I could stand to lose 10 to 15 pounds.
If I looked like Danny DeVito and worked as an engineer, and had none of his acting talent, would you say the same? Sure, he could lose weight, but he’s still short and ugly. Imagine who autistic Danny DeVito’s league is, hydroacetylene.
SkookumTree
2yr ago
I mean, the French found something like that when the penalty for rape was close to the one for murder. Rapists were silencing their victims. Permanently. So if you can commit one crime and then cover it up with a second, greater crime, it seems good to not have incentives to do that. You have two competing goals here…reducing the number of child rapists, and reducing the number of murders.
SkookumTree
2yr ago
I agree. I always thought we should use the firing squad. If we are going to execute people we need to be extremely clear that this is what we are doing: killing a human being. Firing squad seems more difficult to screw up.
SkookumTree
2yr ago
That sounds a lot more like an old-timey insane asylum. Conditions there were often horrific.
I have, but can’t afford it. So too, why the hell wouldn’t she leave the moment the ink’s dry on the green card? I’m not looking for marriage at the moment.
Like. If we’re just looking at Americans, yeah. Those are my options. How do I engage with them in a way that isn’t predatory and preferably doesn’t leave me killed, maimed, or thrown in jail?
Yes, I’ve tried online dating; 99 percent of the profiles they show me are way out of my league and the other 1 percent is just out of my league. I suspect that ‘functional enough to own a smartphone and use a dating app’ is actually a fairly significant filter.
SkookumTree
2yr ago
When I was growing up (c. 2010, middle-class Northeastern suburb), it was considered unusual but admirable to choose not to date in high school. The median parent understood that teenagers got horny and had sex, but wanted their children to know about the potential consequences. It produced a lot of rather deliberate teenagers. One friend sat down with a sheet of paper talking about the pros and cons of having sex, discussed at length potential contraceptives and failure rates, and considered getting an IUD. She was a senior in high school.
SkookumTree
2yr ago
How can I find (without being predatory), the type of women that are in my league? Yes, go outside…but around 80 to 90 percent of the people in my local Wal-Mart are more attractive than I am. And the percentage is even higher for any of the common suggestions…bars, yoga, running groups. They all have jobs, are able to maintain basic hygiene, aren’t 400 pounds, if they’re using stuff like meth or heroin they’re hiding it very well.
Bonus points if there’s a low risk of being killed, maimed, or thrown in jail. Anything I can think of is basically predatory and as such not something I’m comfortable doing.
Like. Given that most people that can hold down a job, have the ability to live independently (1), and keep a roof over their head are out of my league…how do I find someone that’s reasonable, without being a predator. Preferably while staying above ground and out of jail…if you’re sleeping with crackheads that’s gross. Maybe there’s an honorable way to do that, and maybe I’m basically expected to be a combination friends-with-benefits and social worker to someone like that. But how might I make that happen in a more or less ethical way?
Yeah. I know that what I’ve posted sounds gross. It is. Are there OK ways to engage with this grossness, leave her better than I found her, and be a decent man in spite of it? If I’m expected to be celibate for life because short ugly sperg, I get that. I understand that there are no good outcomes for me with respect to dating and relationships. I’m looking for the least-bad option here.
(1): not someone that has the skills to live independently but cannot afford it - like a McDonald’s worker that lives with her mom. That’s fine; if she got promoted to manager or just got $60k/year she could live in an apartment or something without trashing the place. I’m talking more about shit like ‘being mentally ill and removing the toilet from its mountings’. True story - I know a guy that worked with the homeless and said that many of them fucked up their housing and apartments by doing shit like this.
SkookumTree
2yr ago
Yeah. I think that the writing was on the wall after WWII, when the Army (and by extension the American people) realized that Black soldiers and officers could fight well and effectively. Then, they ditched racial apartheid in the military. And went to Korea, and found that these new integrated units didn't suck.
I wonder if in 1950 Jim Crow was kind of a money pit.
SkookumTree
2yr ago
My concern is that this would have empowered the more radical wing, Malcolm the Tenth and the like, who were already a major issue.
I believe that they understood this. They were facing a crisis of legitimacy at the time. The Soviets were also in on it; one of their major ideological attacks on the US was that they engaged in racial apartheid and the occasional lynching. As such...the Establishment feared that if they did not give King and the more moderate wing much of what they wanted, they would get an empowered Malcolm X and a lot of devastation. They might well win that battle, but it would have been quite costly. Especially with the very real chance that the Soviets would have backed black nationalist movements in America, if only to weaken their enemy.
SkookumTree
2yr ago
Personally, I've always wanted to organize an Athenian Race.
That seems kind of like a series of fencing or MMA bouts, or maybe a rugby game, followed by a 26.2-mile ruck march. With plenty of booze at the finish line.
SkookumTree
2yr ago
I mean, you do that with dozens or hundreds of guys, and you might find one pissed-off guy who decides to choose violence.
SkookumTree
2yr ago
The reason our society is so reflexively disgusted by Hitler is because we have mostly internalized the notion that our children should die that others might live, and the man with the tiny moustache represents the polar opposite of that.
He also more or less tore up an awful lot of the...gentleman's agreements, written in blood, that let people live in relative peace without slaughtering each other. He was brilliant: I will give him that. Without his intelligence he would have been unable to do so much evil.
SkookumTree
2yr ago
Yes. Although modern war is incredibly destructive, and starting a low-grade WWI just so men can 'be men' sounds like an idiotic and craven waste of blood and treasure. Also badass brave motherfuckers get blown up while cowards and those that aren't strong enough for frontline combat survive.
SkookumTree
2yr ago
I mean. I consider myself unattractive, for what it is worth. Or, I once was. The thing the disability theorists call desexualization applies to an awful lot of things. I'm not even all that sure that it is a bad thing, although I will say that this idea is rather mean and that the process could be done in a much kinder way if we had celibate life paths. The reason I'm not that sure desexualization is all that bad is because I believe that there's a small but significant chunk of the population that does not make good partners. Much of this is no one's fault: the schizophrenic that can't hold down a job might have been a kind, caring Boy Scout before his first psychotic break freshman year at Ohio State. I will concede that the feature is mean, or at the very least kind of ugly - but I do not know if this is the least bad way to deal with this shit in a modern, Western society.
Lower your standards until your main concern is that she's not a danger to herself or others. Don't go out with that type unless you are okay with being in jail or the hospital. Then go on a lot of dates. See if you can build your social skills. Maybe you will find an unexpected connection.
SkookumTree
2yr ago
It doesn't inherently mean a miserable dating life any more than it locks you out of basketball success. Muggsy Bogues was 5'3" and played in the NBA. A relationship with someone who isn't morbidly obese, is sane, and can hold a job is probably slightly easier for Joe Average than playing Division I ball.
SkookumTree
2yr ago
Get jacked, get social, get rich. Never make a social blunder. Survive life and death struggle. Ideally? Go to war for your country and come back in one piece.
SkookumTree
2yr ago
How so? Unattractive people are expected to know their place. Men and women.
SkookumTree
2yr ago
Yeah. Hopefully you can get them good lawyers and home health aides, if they need them.
SkookumTree
2yr ago
I mean. Be remarkable, or decide where you want the ambulances. It is that simple. This has always been the way of the world for unattractive people, men and women. The women are just the ambulance patients.
So too, creating real risk is also a feature not a bug. If one autistic manlet in a thousand did hard time or died for being presumptuous...well, that's a feature, not a bug. Remember that the most masculine thing a man can do is to go to war. Real attractive masculinity is made up of shit that makes the red pill look like a Sunday school.
You can probably be happy riding shotgun in ambulances with your partner as the patient. Beats being the patient.
SkookumTree
2yr ago
Choosing some people by lot for celibate life paths does not seem like a terrible idea. Someone has to drive truck or some other occupation that meshes poorly with marriage and family life.
SkookumTree
2yr ago
I am sorry for not being insufficiently clear. For a lot of things, there are three (not two) levels. Rich, middle class, and poor. Attractive, average, and unattractive. Hell, strong as fuck, average, and puny. My intention wasn't to say the equivalent of "If you ain't rich, you're a hobo begging for spare change"; that is just straight up false. I meant to say that if you were unattractive (as distinct from average) your dating options sucked.
Also, there are exceptions. I knew one.
SkookumTree
2yr ago
I can usually make friends with anyone, from bona fide meth addicts to rich girls who went to posh boarding schools to Trump partisans to enthusiast tabletop gamers.
Yeah - that's exceptional and counts for a lot. Also, it's supposed to be hard for guys like you - the only guy your height I know who isn't with someone morbidly obese or crazy is a future neurosurgeon with enough charisma for a career in politics.
Nobody was ever uncomfortable with the thought that you'd be anything other than a celibate programmer? And you're on the spectrum? Interesting. Also, how'd you get that charismatic? Can you get people to not only be your friend but also fight and die for you, or sacrifice for you?
Dude. I'm okay with morbid obesity as long as she's capable of basic hygiene. Even that is potentially negotiable as long as I can do it ethically. That's basically my league right now bro.
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