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SkoomaDentist

The Greater Finnish Empire

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joined 2022 September 04 19:08:00 UTC 

				
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SkoomaDentist


								

								

								
								
								

								
							
					
 
				


				
The Greater Finnish Empire

				
				
				

				

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					joined 2022 September 04 19:08:00 UTC
				


				
					

					
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User ID: 84


					
					
					
				

			


					

						
					



		

	

 











			
			

			
			

			




	


		

			
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	 Hot Bump Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
	



		

	






	

		
		

		
		
	

	

  







		

			
			
				Small-Scale Question Sunday for March 15, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


I don't see why I have to care about you or your convenience




You don't. All I ask is that you not actively try to prevent me. Yet you keep claiming that I must read it the original way.




read it in translation




I would if a high quality translation existed. It does not exist. See example #2 that I linked.




I don't really see how the third is a massive improvement over the first.




Yes, for a native it may not be. For a non-native like me it's a significant improvement in readability.




which will help you read other works in the same period without needing translation




Again, I do not care about this. I'm not doing this for some school course or bragging rights. All I want is to read the book so it's enjoyable to me.


Why are you trying to force me to do something I do not want and that has absolutely no effect on you? Why are you so much against people simply enjoying literature if they do not do it exactly as you prefer? You don't have to read it. All I ask is that people like me be allowed to read a version we prefer without ridiculous gatekeeping and personal attacks.


Seriously, all this does is further the impression that literature buffs are gatekeeping assholes who care more about some weird concept of purity than that people actually enjoy literature.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Small-Scale Question Sunday for March 15, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
How is it a strawman to say that the existence of foreign language translations is considered fine by people? I've certainly never seen a literature enthusiast who'd want to restrict others from reading translated works when they can't read the original language.


As for streamlining, the very act of translating English text to Finnish inherently changes the sentence structure because English and Finnish are in different language families and have completely different grammar. It's impossible to translate many forms of archaic English to Finnish without streamlining the sentence structure because proper Finnish doesn't have the same forms of very long tacked on sentences (there are some long sentences but they are different form and thus wouldn't be any more authentic than the streamlined ones).


Obviously poor quality translations are considered bad but that's the very reason why I wish someone would make slightly streamlined versions of English language classics. As it is, my options are 1) try to read the originals and give up because the text is too laborous and annoying to read (without a very good cause, ie. the language used was the norm for the era instead of being a dedicated stylistic choice as you'd find in some books that intentionally evoke the feel of archaic language), 2) read at best a middling quality translation (because they are old and done without access to proper understanding of the source material) or 3) hope a newer high quality translation exists (eg. Pride and Prejudice has been translated by Kersti Juva who's renowned for her outstanding Tolkien translations). Given the lack of option 3, how is it better to either prevent me from reading the book in the first place or to force me to read a subpar translation (that gets say 70% there) instead of allowing me (and everyone else without requiring N different translations) to read a slightly modernized version that's 95% accurate to the original? (and will result in outright better comprehension and appreciation of the text because it uses the words in their modern meaning instead of 200 year old outdated meaning that will cause misunderstandings)


And if you think the existence of people who think that is a strawman, take a look at this and this comment in thus subthread which are essentially saying just that.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Small-Scale Question Sunday for March 15, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Frankly, I don't care about the "history of English language". Neither do I care about "[your] heritage". I am afterall not English (or anglo- anything).


I simply want to read a few classic books in versions that don't require constantly jumping back and forth for no good reason or require using translations that can't capture the meaning of the original, being simultaneously both inaccurate and sounding archaic in precisely the wrong way (ie. many Finnish translations from 1940s and 50s). I don't see how making a new entirely optional version aimed at modern and foreign readers would somehow erase the existence of the original, particularly given that it's out of copyright and can't thus be removed from the market (like happens with movies). This isn't about "proving my literateness". I just want to read the book so that it's actually enjoyable instead of a chore.


Contrast the first paragraph of the original:


"Emma Woodhouse, handsome, clever, and rich, with a comfortable home and happy disposition, seemed to unite some of the best blessings of existence; and had lived nearly twenty-one years in the world with very little to distress or vex her."


with the only available Finnish translation (translated back to English and differences to the original bolded):


"Emma Woodhouse was beautiful, intelligent and rich; She had a comfortable home and happy disposition; She seemed to unite some of the best blessings of existence. She had lived nearly twenty-one years in the world with nothing to meaningfully distress or anger her."


and with something close to what I'd prefer:


"Emma Woodhouse was beautiful, clever and rich, with a comfortable home and happy disposition, and seemed to unite some of the best blessings of existence; She had lived nearly twenty-one years in the world with very little to distress or vex her."


Do you really think that people should have to read the second instead of the third when the first is not an option?


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Small-Scale Question Sunday for March 15, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


Literally, it’s not that different.




Oh, really?


Do you often use words like "bride-people" or "valetudinarian", describe someone as of "easy fortune" or say "consequence" when you mean "social position"? Those are examples from just the first few pages of the book.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Small-Scale Question Sunday for March 15, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
I guess I'm not really literate then. Of course, I assume this means that you in turn can read eg. Dostoevsky in the original Russian editions without problems, right? Afterall, by your measure anything else would be "bowdlerization".


And just to be clear, I'm not talking about some "simple English" version but simply updating those words and terms that have changed their meanings in the last 200 years (and there are enough that the first chapter alone has 34 foonotes!) and making minor changes to some of the overly complex sentence structure so you don't have to keep a dozen different things in mind just to be able to parse a single sentence.


But more to the point I simply cannot understand this view where nobody, not even non-native speakers, should be allowed to have an easier to read version available for them that stays authentic to the original's spirit and it would be better that all those people simply not read at all such books.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Friday Fun Thread for March 13, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
I’m continuing my tradition of using The Motte as a wildly inappropriate forum for suggestions about media.


I recently watched Clueless (1995) and 10 Things I Hate About You (1999) which are modernized teenage high school romantic comedy adaptations of Jane Austen’s Emma and Shakespeare’s Taming Of The Shrew. And I loved them. They are the perfect combination of lighthearted fun, warm and fuzzy positive vibes (particularly Clueless), (faux) nostalgia back to my teenage years, good performances (even iconic in the case of Alicia Silverstone’s Cher in Clueless) combined with great execution and obviously excellent source material.


What other similar light hearted teen rom com adjacent yet actually really good adaptations or even original movies from the late 80s to 2000s should I check out?


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Small-Scale Question Sunday for March 15, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
I just started Jane Austen’s Emma. I’ve been meaning  to read more ”proper” books for a while and I recently watched and loved Clueless (1995) which turns out to be a very well regarded modernized adaptation of Emma to a 90s high school setting. Thus getting an annotated ebook seemed a natural choice (for the high, high, price of $4.50). Wish me luck, lol.


Some googling for translations has also revealed an interesting example of elitism in literary circles. People recoil at the very idea that someone would translate older English language Classics to modern late 1900s / 2000s English and tell you to just suck it up with the overly complicated sentence structure and completely changed meaning of words. However translating to a foreign language - which throws the sentence structure to wind and streamlines it significantly - is somehow perfectly fine. Goddamn elitists…


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Transnational Thursday for March 12, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
No, it very much isn't.


"Kill people required to achieve this strategic goal" is a valid war goal. Same with "Kill these specific people". Even "Kill or drive away everyone in this area" might be. But just "Kill lots of people" isn't because it doesn't achieve anything useful.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of March 9, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
You'd have to pay me rather more than ten bucks to read more than a summary of any remotely modern Scott article. He's a prime example of a writer who spends 95% of the words on completely pointless waffling and even the remaining 5% only very occasionally contains something of value.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Transnational Thursday for March 12, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


If the Iranian regime comes out the other side of this without being removed from power, the regime will spin it as a credibility win because they held together and the United States couldn't dislodge them. So hopefully there is an effective plan in place to dislodge the regime because the alternative is much worse.




Or to put it another way, "Kill lots of people" is not a viable war goal even though Hegseth seems to think it is.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of March 9, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


Mean Girls was supposed to be a satirical comedy, not a how to guide.




Thank you for giving me "proper" justification to continue my teen movie binge.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of March 9, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


But I don't get why people would want a location marker to correlate people's opinions on this question.




Christianity is one question where location marker would be quite helpful. A commenter claiming to be a Catholic from the US is going to have some very different opinions, outlook and rhetoric compared to a European (or South American) Catholic.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of March 9, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Alternatively, do they have bands playing which sound like a third rate copy of U2?


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of March 9, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Can you even be A Real American if your ancestors didn't move there at least 10000 years ago?


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of March 9, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
IIRC, the university lab I worked at 20 years ago was trying to apply for funding to become one. Yes, they used that exact English language term even though it was in Finland.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of March 9, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
You have to admit that "Operation Epstein Fury" does have a certain ring to it.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of March 9, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
That's modern administration for you.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of March 9, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
"Center of excellence" has been a common naming method for over two decades for all sorts of things in many parts of the western world.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Chesterton's Pill
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
I suspect you'd get away with a lot more if you wrote in some other language than english.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Chesterton's Pill
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
I’ve expressed plenty of political views but those are all on /r/suomi and the only ban has been a 2-day one for that particular subreddit (which has notoriously biased mods). I can’t imagine getting site banned is that easy by accident.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of March 9, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Nonetheless the Japanese fought tooth and nail and the Allies had to spend significant troops to win ground (with 12k killed and 40k wounded) and couldn’t simply bomb Japan to submission. Mainland or not made no difference to that.


Do you see US being willing to deal with even a fraction of that number in Iran? I sure don’t.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of March 9, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Japan notably was still invaded on the ground in WW2. See the Battle of Okinawa which was the bloodiest battle of the pacifiic war. ”Mainland” makes rather less of a difference when the entire nation consists of islands.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Chesterton's Pill
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
It’s easy enough: Only get into politics in languages other than English.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Small-Scale Question Sunday for March 8, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
How does college make it so "you are still surrounded by the same set of people every day, forced into constant, recurring proximity"?


Certainly there are many easy socialization opportunities in college but those are very self selected, at least after the very beginning. Hell, I barely even bothered attending classes after the first semester (except for a few mandatory ones and those related to my later masters studies specialization). In comparison in high school the course selection is much more limited, there are at most a couple of different tracks and you have to actually be there every day.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Small-Scale Question Sunday for March 8, 2026
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


There are definitely people who enjoyed their high school years more than their adult life, because the paradigm of ‘teenager’ as a category that exists creates an impulse in authority structures to incentivize the ‘fun’ parts and not the ‘becoming a grownup’ parts. That’s what this is corresponding to; people remembering their fun as the important part of life, not their responsibilities.




I can't help wondering how much of this is North America specific and created by the pop culture. I'm sure there are some people who enjoyed their high school more than anything later around here too, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone take that position publicly. The trope here is that your university years were the best time in your life (for some people), although that might have changed in the recent years (or not - I haven't seen much talk of that lately). There is certainly a lot more partying in university for those who want it.