Why $10M is reasonable? I mean, spreading vile lies is without doubt despicable
I would not wish to be put through such thing (extreme lies about me and my dead children by someone influential enough to result in idiots and insane people harassing me).
Though I consider being willing to survive through years of that in exchange of massive amount of money such as 10 000 000 $ dollars.
Therefore it seems to me enough to offset damage caused.
And yes, I am not including murders itself in that.
Note also in general I think that transfer of funds to victim should be done more often. You hit someone with a car? That is not your car anymore but goes to a victim. It was not your car or some cheap wreck? 10% of income goes to victim unless huge amount of funds is paid, enough to offset damage you did. You robbed someone? 1000% of what you stole goes to the victims. (note: maybe this is done already in USA). You run automated call spam? Each victim is entitled to 500$. Wage theft? Worker is entitled to 10 times of what they were illegally not paid. Running fraud? You must give back 10 times what you stolen, etc etc.
(if I would be in power to legislate something - then maybe I would end with lower multipliers, but someone losing entire wealth after running large scale fraud seem much more reasonable than going to prison for few months and keeping stolen funds - again, maybe it is problem of local justice system)
I do not understand why it is reasonable that a person who was a victim of a lie (admittedly, a very vile and disgusting one, but still one lie), should instantly become top 1% rich just because of it?
"emotional damages" is overused but reasonable in this case. Being victim of top 0.05%* of harassment seems a good reason to get eye-watering amounts of money from chief harasser. In older times other solutions would be used, but this modern one seems preferable.
*1 in 5 000 harassment seems reasonable estimate to me in this case, as in "there are about 168 000 more harassed people in USA and 335 000 000 less harassed ones" but have not explored this one deeply and maybe I was mislead by what reached me.
Smok
1yr ago
Why you think that lawful evil would not result in this? We have plenty of examples of exactly this problem happening.
Smok
1yr ago
As for accounts of said racism I invite the reader, for example, to ask himself if he knows what was the biggest genocide during WW2.
Holocaust, 11 000 000 - 17 000 000 dead.
who caused the Great Chinese Famine
PRC, Mao in particular.
Smok
1yr ago
Why you think so?
German Third Reich was very lawful evil. Technically they ended with vertical firing squad rather than circular firing squads, but problems in the end were very similar.
(maybe there could be treated as pragmatic with "Jews are evil" axiom, still society they created was far from flourishing due to their own actions)
Smok
1yr ago
If you insist on dumb binary ethical categorizations (which are dump) then USA at that time was closer to lawfully good than lawfully evil.
(not claiming that it was ideal but on evil to not evil range populated by governments in human history it was quite far on "not evil" side)
I think that many other people should get 10 000 000$ fines for malicious lies. For example Musk for his "Sorry pedo guy. You really did ask for it." tweet and that child bride allegations[1].
And no, I do not buy explanation that convinced jury that "pedo guy" is some standard mild and generic South African insult rather than allegation of raping children.
And people who pushed risky financial instruments while claiming that they are risk-free[2]. With fines waived for unaware low-level pushers in call centers and going into millions for higher-level managers, going into 50 000 000$+ territory at level of CEO. Also when CEO ignored malicious behaviour at lower levels as long as they were profitable rather that ordered it. With jail terms for CEOs that ordered such behaviour. And death penalty for companies while I am at this hobby horse.
[1] Assuming that they were false, I have not verified it deeply.
[2] I got some offer of them and they were deeply misleading and whoever prepared this lies was clueless patsy or evil. Either way this banks would be fined into nonexistence in a just world and if that actions were deliberate by management - they would be all in jail.
Smok
1yr ago
royalroad
Mother of Learning was great. But some other that I tried were either abandoned or turned into protagonist winning effortlessly because they are protagonist.
Can you recommend anything complete?
(I can recommend https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/45534/this-used-to-be-about-dungeons/ - fantasy slice of life, with some plot. Good characterisation, nice worldbuilding. Nice world, as in "closer to ideal than reality" not some brutal dystopia where everyone is evil and/or stupid)
Smok
1yr ago
And the prosecutors will prosecute and the judge will go along and so will the higher courts and no amount of pointing out that it's a shoelace will save you from jail time. And to add insult to injury, if and when all this commences, all those law-n-order conservatives who agreed that indeed a shoelace was not a machine gun will say "Well, what did you expect? You knew a shoelace was a machine gun, BATF said so."
Somehow I suspect that it is hyperbole and not what you actually believe, but I am not really sure.
Well I'm not an expert on holocaust, a quick google gave me a 5-6 million killed jews estimate and that is the authoritative one on wikipedia
I specified number of victims of Holocaust, not victim count of Shoah, not a victim count of Jewish Holocaust dead.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victims
(if there is a better word/term for overall extermination done by Germans around WW II less likely to result in confusion and is not annoyingly long then let me know)
I am not refering to the Jewish genocide but to one that is twice as big and that you never heard about because of racism:
It killed 11 million human beings, 11 million slavic civilian people for their ethnicity
I am considering it as part of Holocaust (and less than half of Holocaust dead were Jewish)
that you never heard about because of racism
I assure you that you are mistaken in this specific case, I am from Poland. Though in general I agree about blatant racism/politics/propaganda/failed PR in this area.
especially Romani people
nope, less than half million Romani were murdered (mostly because Germans run out of people to murder in this group after murdering about 50% - 75% of European population)
Soviet civilians were largest group of people murdered in Holocaust.
Around 5 000 000 Poles were murdered.
(in both groups there is large overlap with murder of Jews - around 1.3M of murdered USSR civilians were Jews, around 3M of murdered Poles were Jews)
There has been flaws during this necessary transition
That description is part hilarious and part horrifying.
the reason behind 99% of the deaths, an artificial one, deliberately chosen by the U.S.A and other occidental countries, a worlwide ban on exports to China. A worlwide ban of many technologies including the main disruption of the century, the discovery and production of fertilizers.
Well no. Great Chinese Famine and Holodomor and similar catastrophes were primarily caused by murderous communist rule.
Backyard furnaces, four pests, pressure to blatantly falsify reports, Lysenkoism including deep plowing etc and so on. Describing it merely as "flaws" is an absurd denial.
worlwide ban on exports to China
Do you have any sources? From what I remember one of problems was exporting food while millions starved to death, so presumably they also imported something. But I may misremember this one.
Smok
1yr ago
On topic of quite literal culture wars, but differently than usually defined here: my family is buying electricity generator for an Ukrainian family.
It is about 500 euro, goes directly to family member of refugee family that we are hosting so there is a decent chance that it will reach intended targets - and I am far more sure about this than with many charities.
Mentioning that mostly as a possibility if someone would be interested in doing something similar.
Smok
1yr ago
But, then again, there was some shit that I can't see being beneficial to fraud and really does look like stupid/lazy people simply not bothering with rules: e.g. the revelation that they apparently paid expenses via chat emojis.
I do not understand why handling expense claims via Discord or Slack bot is somehow problematic. This emoji thing gets repeated together with other clearly problematic ones and I do not understand it.
To be more precise, I think that 10 000 000$ is enough to offset damage caused and a bit higher than that but not enough to be absurd (I would definitely not take deal to get such harassment and 1 000 000$)
Smok
1yr ago
Not familiar with this case, from quick look it does not appear to be as large scale or affecting as many people, or involving blatant log-term and blatantly obvious lies, so I would go with "no".
Smok
1yr ago
Unless the aggregate poor can sell something to the aggregate not-poor
Status goods. "hand made" is already used this way.
One obvious thing (though far from an utopian answer): prostitution. (and if people missed this, then then they missed also other things)
What is the point of scrambling to buy hundreds of modern MBTs and creating a logistical nightmare? They're under a nuclear umbrella and their treaty allies have a military budget 10-20x larger than the only vaguely threatening force in the region? The only area Russia has parity is nuclear weapons, indeed they have superiority in that they have 2000 tactical nukes, much more than NATO. So what good is this large conventional force?
Are you aware how well relying on alliances went for Poland during WW II?
Also, have you seen how Germany is spending its 100 billion?
And why you call Russia "vaguely threatening force"? Ongoing invasion is far from vague. And far from being definite victory, Ukraine can still collapse.
Imagine that the Russians had quickly won the war in Ukraine. Does it follow that they would invade Poland, who is in NATO and protected by nuclear powers?
It seems a real risk for me. In fact my reaction to full scale invasion on 24th February was to start drafting emigration plans as I was worried that Russian army will not stop on Poland-Ukraine border. Fortunately war went in unexpected way.
If there is a war between NATO and Russia, Russia would quickly start to lose
What if there would war between Poland and Russia?
I suppose the Poles have been burnt by trusting their allies before.
yep
And Trump actually had a point about other NATO countries not pulling their weight.
I suppose it could help out the Ukrainians. But how does assisting Ukraine improve Polish security?
Makes need for updating https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_armed_conflicts_involving_Poland_against_Russia less likely.
So what good are the tanks and the large conventional force Poland is making?
Intervening in Estonia in case Russia gets uppity and still does not get that they are not entitled to empire in Central/Eastern Europe?
Protect against whatever is happening in 15 years? How many people predicted in 2007 that in 15 years we will have full scale war in Europe, with 100 000+ dead and numbers increasing? With Russia losing 1500 tanks? And getting distinction of being the first nuclear power having its strategic bomber base in own territory being hit by missiles (that their own former empire produced...)? Getting its flagship sunk?
And with Ukraine adding own losses, with just independently confirmed losses being large enough to equip all land armies of Western Europe and have leftovers?
On political side: who in 2007 would predict that Poland will give Ukraine 230+ tanks because they are being invaded by Russia?
How many predicted that Russian leadership will believe own propaganda and it will run WW II parody combined with Gulf War parody at cost of billions, 100 000+ dead people, massive human misery and other costs?
This war reminded that having an actual army is really useful also in XXI century, also for European countries.
Not entirely sure what will be happening and 2037 but at this point I am not willing to base defence on "war is not going to happen because we are in Europe and NATO". NATO has some chance to be de facto not existing in 2037.
However, I think that the armies of Poland and Europe generally are just opportunistically expanding themselves now that they've got a decent-sounding excuse.
Well, if Polish army would not manage to use THAT to expand/modernize then it would demonstrate absurd incompetence cough German procurement cough.
Note also that photographing yourself with pile of tanks will work nicely in upcoming elections. Especially given that weakest area of opposition was its handling of Russia-related international relations, also proposed handling of Belarusian border crisis.
So focusing topic on "we are importing bajillion tanks" is done in part (probably quite small one) to look well during upcoming elections.
So maybe scale is overly large, maybe opportunity costs is high but I do not think it is so clear case of waste/bad decision.
Smok
1yr ago
he is gone full blown sjw since adopting the kids
Huh, usually it is a bit other way. Was it coincidental or there is some reason to suspect causation?
Smok
1yr ago
Also, it seems that sequel is abandoned if I look at forum posts right ( https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/the-last-angel.244209/page-96#post-15777617 is from 2014 ).
Smok
1yr ago
Maybe should be more pessimistic, but I would bet that declaring shoelace to be machine gun would not pass. Declaring nonmachine gun as a machine gun? Likely.
Declaring shoelace as a machine gun? Would not reach court or would be squashed there.
Smok
1yr ago
Others claim Aella is trying her hardest to stir the pot for attention. That could have been a valid point, if what she posted had been the least bit controversial.
Aella is clearly doing it for attention - why that claim is not true? (not that it is relevant at all, and pointing it out by someone with Twitter account is ridiculous)
Smok
1yr ago
I assumed that Slack/Discord would be used as interface, with bot archiving it to some persistent less mutable database.
Or channel being configured in way blocking editing - for example with bot reposting message.
Given that it was crypto and specifically FTX I assume that expense claim process was filled with fraud with bad implementation serving as smoke screen (deliberately or accidentally).
But I still do not see problem with emoji specifically
If the insider has admin permissions on the discord they could even delete the bots message perhaps wiping away any trace the expense existed.
That is possible also with software specifically for managing expenses, there someone with admin permissions also can tamper with database. It is also possible with paper.
Smok
1yr ago
Zero results for "I love the island"
I have full page of results.
"I love the palm trees"
The same.
Maybe you search limiting to specific language?
There is no plausible scenario under which I would benefit from owning one. And I am in situation where benefits are far smaller and costs are larger than average - so even if it would make sense for 70% of people in EU to buy power generator it still would make no sense for me.
Also, it seems that you are jumping into doomerism of some kind.
Smok
1yr ago
"shucks, guess that business venture failed" level but on the "I have to give up my previous life" one
Yes, I am aware of this and this is more "and that is why I am fine with Alex Jones fined into nonexistence, if this verdict will be applied" and less "that should be legislated immediately".
If I would be proposing actual law then it would be more reasonable - but still going into this direction.
But for example for predatory banks some actual penalties should be happening. It is absurd that entire sale division blatantly lies to people, companies going bankrupt and people losing their wealth - and nothing happens to people responsible for that. I consider "I have to give up my previous life" as desirable for CEOs presiding over this. Though not "and now they are homeless and starving".
nontrivial number of people would threaten victims into silence or even outright attempt to murder them (or even just run amok on third parties), because they'd prefer the chance of jail time to the certainty of losing $1m.
Yes, that is a risk. "You lose your home if you hit pedestrian" may end with China-style "we hit pedestrian? lets be sure that they end dead".
Again, it is more personal emotional reaction that ready legislation. In such cases I put much more effort and thinking into that (and what I got passed was extremely minor compared to what is discussed here, and I put much more effort into it)
Maybe one day there'll be Roko's Basilisk style scifi punishments you can mete out with certainty, but until then...
That would be unlikely to work, the problem is that many people outright ignore potential negative consequences. I am thinking more about compensation to victims than deterrence.
At the very minimum he should also apologise for blatantly lying and inventing conspiracy theories about their dead children and refund costs caused by his lying.
And also some reasonable compensation (maybe about 10 000 000 $ per slandered person?).
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