BANNED USER: ban evasion
TequilaMockingbird
Brown-skinned Fascist MAGA boot-licker
No bio...
User ID: 3097
Banned by: @Amadan
jingoism i can see. But contempt for the poor? Prioritizing the privileges of the elite? Are we watching the same movie?
To me it seems that much of the wailing and gnashing of teeth surrounding Trump is coming from the complete opposite direction. People being pissed about him paying far too much attention to "the poor" and "the ordinary" when he ought to be defering to the "experts" and the "elite" as a good politician ought to.
The prevailing attitude seems to be one of; get a load of this at this buffoon, doing the things he said he was going to do.
...
I also note that you only listed the things you considered "sorid" and did not include anything you considered "exceptional". That is unless it was your intention to suggest that the US is exceptional in its soridness.
I'm pretty sure that's not how it works
I think you're seriously underestimating rationalists' capacity to rationalize.
Timeless decision theory is (and always has been) an excuse to do what you were going to do anyway.
It's the old leftist fallacy of "society is to blame" writ at a metaphysical level. You can't blame me for the consequences of my actions, I was mearly a pawn of universal forces.
Back in the late 00s and early 10s there was a professor who lived in Santa Clara and would throw some of the most interesting house parties in the bay area
These house parties were arguably some of the earliest in-person rationalist meet-ups, but because this professor was a gregarious outgoing sort with eclectic interests as well a man of import in the the West Coast SCA and BJJ communities, the crowd at these parties tended to be wildly diverse.
As a result early LessWrong had a lot of weird overlaps, Navy SEALs, Catholic Priests, UFC fighters, and Rocket Scientists all sharing a space, talking to (and occasionally getting high with) Silicon Valley billionaires, work-a-day code monkeys, and activitist college kids.
That was the environment in which rationalism got its start, but as rationalism became increasingly exclusive, trans, poly, and frankly "culty", and those with more diverse views relative to the bay-area activist set who formed the core clique quietly cut ties, and either returned to or started thier own groups resulting in "evaporative cooling" of the rationalist sphere and increasingly cult-like dynamics.
CFAR and Ziz are names that i haven't thought about in 10+ years and it feels odd to think that i used to know some these people, and simultaneously gratifying and tragic to have old intuitions confirmed.
TequilaMockingbird
Brown-skinned Fascist MAGA boot-licker
6mo ago
"If we dont fund gain of function in in Asia and Africa, where will we find new and novel diseases to justify our salaries?"
-the CDC (I imagine)
They definitely viewed themselves as white
Not really no, they viewed themselves as members of the French race, the German race, the Spanish race, the Slavic race, etc...
Where do you think the idea of the White race came from?
Post WWI socialists needed a scapegoat and they latched on to Kipling, or more precisely the people and worldview he represented. Today's woke leftist apple doesn't fall far from it's century-old Marxist tree.
TequilaMockingbird
Brown-skinned Fascist MAGA boot-licker
6mo ago
I asked you if you believe them.
I think its kind of crazy to think that we would need "permission" to return Columbian citizens to Columbia at all. What choice does the Columbian govt. realistically have? Risk an international incident by shooting down a plane full of thier own people? Cut off Hunter Biden's supply of Cocain?
TequilaMockingbird
Brown-skinned Fascist MAGA boot-licker
6mo ago
That oposition to DEI, AA, the LGBTQ agenda, and other flavors of woke PMC overreach is mostly motivated by anti-white animus is certainly one of the takes of all time.
TequilaMockingbird
Brown-skinned Fascist MAGA boot-licker
6mo ago
You are talking out your ass, per your own sources the vast majority of Jews are descended from a single Levantine source while the various sub-tribes of Europe seem to come from all over with distinct physiognomic differences betwern Iberians, Celts, Anglos, Scandis, Slavs, Greeks, Et Al.
And you believe those talking points?
You believe that a member of the PMC would never lie or misrepresent facts to push a political agenda?
There was definitely a racial aspect to being French, Spanish, or German until very recently.
Yes, and what i am saying is that to the extent that this is true, the French, Spanish, and Germans did not view themselves as members of a monolithic pan-European "white" race. They viewed themselves as members of the French, Spanish, and German races.
They've bought into wanting a honest meritocracy, the question of to what degree we actually have one is a major bone of contention, and driver of anti-woke sentiment.
TequilaMockingbird
Brown-skinned Fascist MAGA boot-licker
6mo ago
The whitest parts of America are the highest trust.
The highest trust parts of the US aren't "white" as much as they are "red" and "rural". States like Utah, Idaho, Wyoming , and Vermont. Even in bottom tier trust states like Lousiana and New York, the trend holds with the highest trust counties being those with the less urban development and more Trump voters.
their primary ambition should be to maximize how many Europeans exist around them
To what end?
Europeans do not feel this kind of sentiment
And why should I as an American care what Europe thinks? You have yet to make the case that racialism creates better outcomes than a color-blind meritocracy. I also note that when Europe does "enact policies that help their own citizens" those polices are contingent on citizenship and cultural affiliation rather than race with France favoring the French, Spain the Spanish. The notion of "whiteness" or a unified European race is notable in its absense.
Re: the "thought experiment", we convince them the same way we have historically, through the ruthless enforcement of cultal norms. If you don't love God, Guns, Baseball, and Apple Pie you can GTFO of our country.
European peoples are incredibly more monophyletic than Jews.
How do you square this claim with millenia of intra-european warfare? Are you saying that you can't tell a Prussian from a Paddy? or a Paddy from a Wop?
You're making a bunch of mouth noises, but you haven't really said anything.
You say...
There is no anti-identitarian right, nor center, nor left in any substantial sense.
...and i reply that this is manifestly untrue.
If a deep blue state like California is struggling to muster a simple majority, what hope do you think AA and DEI have in the rest of the country?
Point being that Im not trying to "transform" society into being anti-identitarian, im saying that a good chunk of it already is. And that if the dissident/identitarian right wants to expand it's audience and influence it's going to have to grapple with that fact.
TequilaMockingbird
Brown-skinned Fascist MAGA boot-licker
6mo ago
Do you have a term that you would prefer?
TequilaMockingbird
Brown-skinned Fascist MAGA boot-licker
6mo ago
Firstly, Europe and India do not belong in the same category as 'non-American'.
If you are you trying to claim that Europe and India are both "American"? I am pressing X to doubt.
Europeans founded the USA.
...and you think that this means we owe them? That this gives them power over us? I disagree.
Americans are just a different kind of European
No we are not, we are better than them.
You seem to consider meritocracy as an end in and of itself. Why?
Because merit, like virtue, is self-justifying, They are things that are good unto themselves.
Art, culture, family, fun, play and nation matter.
I agree, and if you believe that this is the case, why are you choosing to align yourself against them?
How is this relevant to anything?
It is relevant because @IGI-111 is wrong, the powerful do not dictate what is popular to "the normies", "the normies" dictate what is popular to the powerful.
TequilaMockingbird
Brown-skinned Fascist MAGA boot-licker
6mo ago
Hillary and Jeb were both pretty universally hated by the normie class...
...and universally beloved by those in power. If normies only adapt to what people with power tell them to, one of them would have become president.
Normies don't decide what's popular. They adapt to what people with power tell them is.
This statement is false.
If it were true, the 45th president of the United States would have been either Hillary Clinton or Jeb Bush, not Donald Trump.
This started as a reply to @SecureSignals @RandomRanger and others but I didn't want to leave it buried at the bottom of a 20 comment long chain as I feel like it warrants examination on it's own.
I posit that the biggest obstacle to the online dissident/woke/identitarian right gaining influence and a wider audience in the US is not that it is rife with grifters, feds, and cosplayers. (Though it is) It's biggest obstacle is that it doesn't do enough to differentiate itself from the online woke/identitarian left in the eyes of people who are not members of the priestly caste (IE Journalists, Academics, etc...). While I acknowledge that the identitarian right has managed to make inroads within the priestly caste (See Yarvin's recent interview in the NYT), it seems to me that the influence of priestly caste has been waning overall (See the election of Donald Trump).
I get the impression that a lot of commentors here don't grasp just how unpopular identity politics is in "normie" spaces. In fact, I would say that to call it "unpopular" may be grossly under selling it. Leftists often lament the weakness/lack of class consciousness in the US, that the poor, more often than not, do not see themselves as "exploited" as much as they see themselves as "temporarily embarrassed". However I believe that this is a feature rather than a bug if one wants to live in a society with high trust and social mobility, and one of the things that distinguishes the US from other nations.
If the identitarian right and the wider priestly caste are going to hold on to Identity Politics as an organizing principal/value they are going to have to have to confront the fact that the perception of Identity Politics in the popular zeitgeist is that of an ideology for losers. An ideology for people too stupid, degenerate, or incompetent to survive in an honest meritocracy. An ideology for people who could not and therefore "Didn't Earn It". They will also have to overcome the perceived association of Identity Politics with Socialism, Marx, and other foreign (distinctly Un-American) influences. Specifically, those of the Indian sub-continent (IE the worst place on earth) and Europe (IE that socialist shithole our ancestors fled across the ocean to escape, and that we as Americans have expended untold millions in blood and treasure trying to protect from its own worst impulses).
Finally, there is the question of value added. Is the priestly caste even relevant these days? Are the jobs that the priestly caste performs mostly fake? Could we do away with them entirely? If so, is trying to align with them a smart move?
Imagine a sincere white supremacist, a walking talking Hollywood cliche with a shaved head, half a dozen kids, a wife he beats, and the 14 words tattooed on his back. How would you go about convincing him that he would be doing more to secure a future for his children (and his genes) by urging his son to associate with gay Catholics and non-binary/MTF cat-girls, than he would by letting his son date that thicc Latina from down the street?
I contend that these are the sort of issues that both the woke left and the identitarian right are going to have to grapple with if they don't want "Trumpism" to run the table on them, as much of the ground level opposition to wokism as it exists today is in reality opposition to identify politics as a whole.
TequilaMockingbird
Brown-skinned Fascist MAGA boot-licker
6mo ago
Even after reading the intro, the list remains niether "exhaustive" nor "well researched".
but the genetic level is most important.
Not to the vast majority of Americans it is not. That is my point.
I would argue that any definition of "right wing" that excludes the vast majority of current and historically acknowledged right wing thinkers and movements but somehow manages to include neo-Leninists is thoroughly "contorted".
TequilaMockingbird
Brown-skinned Fascist MAGA boot-licker
6mo ago
If you are correct and his model of "the right" really is restricted solely to hard-core radicals and left-leaning libertarians, how much of the Right is there left to model?
If you contort your definitions hard enough you can make any statement true, but doing so is not the path to insight.
Is that supposed to be a condemnation?
Are you arguing that "socialists, democrats, and the left" are not to blame?
More options
Context Copy link