VinoVeritas
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User ID: 2910
VinoVeritas
1mo ago
The reality that someone who has self-selected into this group of open-minded free-thinkers could have lived through the corona-times and tell anyone to 'take off the tinfoil' about anything is a huge blackpill. No broader point, just intensely pessimistic about the future of the 'national conversation.'
VinoVeritas
1mo ago
Not as though I've been appointed spokesman of all the pro-lifers, but maybe re-read my OP where I explicitly stated the general preference would have been for Trump to stick with 'leave it to the states' instead.
Kind of difficult to have a productive conversation when Person A says 'this is my preference and here's why' and Person B says 'no actually, that's deeply unacceptable to you'
VinoVeritas
1mo ago
I guess I'll start us off with a quick one:
This isn't an article so much as a clip-n-quote of something Trump said. I'll copy paste here because it's not long and this way you won't have to click the link:
When asked about the rape, incest and life of mother exceptions, Trump said, “If you look at France, if you look at different places in Europe with, if you look at a lot of the civilized world, they have a period of time. But you can’t go out seven months and eight months and nine months. If the Republicans spoke about it correctly, it never hurt me from the standpoint of elections. It hurt a lot of Republicans. I think you have to have, you have to have the three exceptions.”
He added, “I tell people, number one, you have to to with your heart. You have to go with your heart. But beyond that you also have to get elected, OK? And if you don’t have the three exceptions, I think it’s very, very hard to get elected. We had a gentleman from Pennsylvania who was doing pretty well. He refused to to go with the exceptions, and he lost in a landslide for governor. Nice man lost in a landslide. You have to go with the exceptions. The number of weeks, I’ll be coming out with a recommendation fairly soon. I think it’ll be accepted.”
I'm pro-life and believe life begins at conception, not just as a Christian, but much more importantly because I consider it the cleanest and most sane policy from a secular perspective. Because to me it seems obvious the only way to avoid making Tenochtitlan-sized mistakes at some point along our path is to avoid meddling with the primeval forces of nature and attempting to play God in the first place.
Once you start introducing 'exceptions,' you're just immediately back to condoning all abortion. "My health is at risk because if I'm not permitted to abort I might harm myself" is a free at-will golden ticket as long as you're able to memorize and repeat a sentence of that length.
Trump, quite obviously, doesn't really feel strongly about abortion and is attempting to pick the most palatable position. That's the problem about integrity in politics - none of the voters have any so it's almost always counterproductive for your electability if you do.
But taking the tack that "the GOP must accept exceptions" instead of "the issue must be returned to the states" is another huge own goal from the New York liberal Trump. If you're going to have a slippery real estate mogul as your standard bearer, you're going to end up with some very ugly and counterproductive wheeling and dealing for the movement.
VinoVeritas
1mo ago
Thumbs up emoji
VinoVeritas
1mo ago
The origin of the word 'trivia' seems obvious once you know it, there was a place in Rome where three big main roads met (tri via's) and the women would meet up to do their washing, get the news, and gossip. The foundation of the whole Western world
VinoVeritas
1mo ago
My ancestors did not bother to invite writing beyond some furtive rock-scratches before the Romans invaded them and wrote them into history, my conclusion from that is that the Romans were doing something right my ancestors were not
VinoVeritas
1mo ago
This was real but it wasn't some magic thing that just happened to happen, a thousand harsh winters in Northern Europe created the conditions for it. The floor was so high because you could always fall back on family, or if you'd truly burned your ass with them, the church
VinoVeritas
1mo ago
There's still this little tickle in my hindbrain that's like 'why doesn't somebody do something about this?'
But I increasingly think this is just what people do. Absent real abiding problems, they will abstract new enemies, even (perhaps especially) in the face of real problems/enemies. We're just wired out of the womb a little 'wrong.'
Of course the problem isn't the immigrants, diversity is our strength after all, the problem is those making a fuss! If they'd just get out of the way and stop being a bother we could make some real progress
VinoVeritas
1mo ago
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one - alcohol, tobacco, latin, greek, and bible study are to me what makes a man
VinoVeritas
1mo ago
So regarding your argument, that we should stop banning people for being trolls or uncivil, that isn't going to happen.
This wasn't my argument and this attempted characterization of my argument doesn't engender any feeling in me that any further exchange would be productive
VinoVeritas
1mo ago
That can all be true and there can still be some utility in occasionally not being disingenuous
Not good for the soul to run around sperging out with no-power-level hiding, not good for the soul to constantly be maintaining a lie either
VinoVeritas
1mo ago
Do you want to be the one telling all your friends you just met the nicest guy and he's a plumber? It's true
VinoVeritas
1mo ago
This all seems off the mark to me,
As a rule
Man's a fool
When it's hot
Wants it cool
When it's cool
Wants it hot
Always wanting
What is not
I dated a girl once who was prettier than a porn fantasy, nothing physical could be improved about her in any way. And one time I almost crashed the car on purpose because I was so fed up with her stupid neurotic shit (if anyone's curious that particular time was because we apparently had to get an oil change right then before dinner with her parents (or as she wasn't able to articulate but I was able to infer her dad would have thought less of her for not taking proper care of the car)).
The problem isn't that the fantasy is unrealistic, the problem is that fantasy is typically pretty unsatisfying.
VinoVeritas
1mo ago
?? I think we're agreeing too! I'm one of those 'call it holy' connection and duty people.
Inadvertently dismantling the mother's irreplaceable role and creating this cargo cult where we all gesticulate wildly at how important it is to be a good mother has, as you said, been a disaster
VinoVeritas
1mo ago
I think we're actually agreeing with each other that once upon a time women were integral partners to the family business from wake up to bedtime and then one day kind of found themselves looking around going "so...what do I do now?"
Husband is at work
Kids are at school
You are at home
For 8 hours
Everyday
With nothing to do but throw the clothes in the washer and start the Betty Crocker mix
That I didn't go on ad nauseum about how this was not a good thing and how women can do stuff too wasn't meant to take away from the broader point which stated more plainly is "one of the causes of modern ennui can be directly traced to the erasure of domestic labor thanks to appliances"
Go hug your grandma and ask her what life was like as a human washer and dryer - she will likely bitch to the moon with a big smile on her face
VinoVeritas
1mo ago
You: "I want to do X" is difference from "I was forced to do X."
Me: "I want the communists to win the War in Russia and China" is difference from " I was forced xyz"
Also me: Please consider this as it is rather than making me regret not dressing up the claim with rhetoric and deflection
Bruh
VinoVeritas
1mo ago
I don't subscribe to the idea that my father's father was morally deficient or somehow less capable of understanding he shouldn't beat his mother, wife, sisters, or daughter. At least in my family's living memory someone who beat their wife was called a wifebeater, and that was widely considered about as low as someone who fucked their mother
VinoVeritas
1mo ago
The only thing keeping us all here is both 1) that it's the best place to be and 2) that it's the only place to be. Not unlike America or Ancient Rome, even as it dives evermore into the shitter, it's still wrong to unperson someone because both of those things will remain true for the foreseeable future.
VinoVeritas
1mo ago
Everyone's contributions are that irreplaceable. This is the most self-selected self-sorted self-assembled group of freethinkers left on planet earth that's not buried in a telegram feed somewhere impenetrable.
VinoVeritas
1mo ago
We're in furious agreement all around it seems
VinoVeritas
1mo ago
This may be a perfectly appropriate response to something from somewhere, but probably not to the question 'what do you think of all the dead Palestinians recently'?
VinoVeritas
1mo ago
They all suck and only came about after the war
We used to build Cathedrals
VinoVeritas
1mo ago
The left has successfully eliminated every space available to the less-than-50-Stalins...except for this one. Our king Zorba probably deserves a statue or at least a portrait for this - it didn't happen by accident. But that was just a little side-cuck to your deserved response lol
Point is that I keep my power level in check 99.9% of the time. Turn on the radio, bite my lip. TV, hold my tongue. Out for drinks, better not say anything. I work for myself but otherwise can only imagine.
Once in a blue moon there is value all to itself in just saying "fuck" with an extra "k" on the exhale and pointing people to scripture (Matthew 27)
VinoVeritas
1mo ago
"I want the communists to win the War in Russia and China" is difference from " I was forced xyz"
I am not being cute or trolling and don't know how to say otherwise. Our entire discourse is poisoned but please try to consider that sincerely. Or don't. Trying too hard to care is more cringe than it's ever been so not appearing to try too hard is a sign of legitimacy
I can entertain that our reading past each other is from me saying 'Pro-lifers think Trump should have left it to the states [as the next move in the long-term game]' and you saying 'return it to the states [as a long-term permanent solution] is unpopular with pro-lifers' and that both are true.
If Trump weren't Trump he might've thought to punt it down the road so the judiciary could work on it for another generation or two, rather than think he was clever enough to make 'the best deal' that everyone's gonna love. But long-term, the idea that New York, California, etc would continue having late-term abortion on demand because it had been 'left to the states' is deeply unpopular among pro-lifers, for sure
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