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ZorbaTHut


				

				

				

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joined 2022 September 01 11:36:40 UTC
				

				

				

				

				

				

					
				

				

				
				
				

				
User ID: 9


				
				
				

			

		

	














	


		


			



	

		

			

			

				

					

						

							
						

						

							
							

								
ZorbaTHut


								

								

								
								
									
								
								
								
								

								
							
					
 
				


				

				
				
				

				

					13 followers  

					follows 0 users  

					joined 2022 September 01 11:36:40 UTC
				


				
					

					
No bio...

				

				

				

				

				

					

					

					
					
					

					
User ID: 9


					
					
					
				

			


					

						
					



		

	

 











			
			

			
			

			




	


		

			
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	 Hot Bump Top New Old Controversial Comments
	



		

	






	

		
		

		
		
	

	

  







		

			
			
				Site Rollback to February 3rd
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Test


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of November 20, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
This may now be fixed - someone submitted a review that plausibly fixes the issue. Thank you, contributor!


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
As I said, "everyone finds them slightly uncomfortable". I'll take that over "one side is perfectly happy with it and the other side is not happy at all".


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of November 20, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


We’re supposed to check the history of a person’s consent to pronoun before we refer to them in the simplest way possible, come on. Just let the pronouns go free.




Honestly, if it's a legit mistake, I'm not going to care much. I'm probably just going to say "hey don't use that for that person, thanks". It's more when someone is doing it intentionally and repeatedly that I start telling people to knock it off. I'm not sure we've ever given out a warning for this, let alone a ban.


And remember that gender-neutral pronouns are always acceptable, as is not using pronouns - if you don't want to keep track of what people's identity is, there's two easy global solutions.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Man, you've been around here long enough to know that this doesn't fly. Three-day ban and frankly this is lenient because you've been here so long, but, like, that won't last forever, calm down with the accusations.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
This is both low-effort and building consensus. Put more effort into your arguments and avoid this kind of flat evidence-less claim, please.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of November 6, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


The ethics of euthanasia are an interesting topic




Then write something about that, not just "look how bad these people are".




and discussing a general topic through a recent example is a very common thing here




Then start a discussion, instead of just dropping "look how bad these people are".


This particular rule isn't new, it's existed before this branch of the forum has.




https://www.themotte.org/post/757/israel-gaza-megathread-iv/158907?context=8#context




Three most recent posts in the Gaza megathread:


Someone writing about an event


A specific set of four questions to people


A specific single question to people


If anyone's just posting "boy look at how bad these people are" then report them, please.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				[META] A Whole Host Of Completed Minor Changes
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
One of the things I've always kinda tangled with, without a good answer, is how much moderators should be part of the community. I think there's good arguments in both directions; they should because it sucks if it feels like moderators aren't really part of things, and they shouldn't because it's hard to treat "debate with a mod" the same way as "debate with a non-mod", there's always the fear the mod is going to take something personally and ban you.


(We have a sort-of informal rule that mods shouldn't moderate responses to their own comments unless they're really horrible, but there's plenty of places that have stronger rules that are completely ignored regularly, so I don't blame people for being worried about this.)


Not having a moderator badge is sort-of intentional in that I think I'd rather lean towards "moderators are just community members".


It's also sort of coincidental because they didn't have badges when we forked the software and it's easier to not add them than to add them.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Small-Scale Question Sunday for September 3, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Honestly, if you don't notice it quickly, something's gone wrong. But so far I don't have much feedback :V


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				[META] A Whole Host Of Completed Minor Changes
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


Bug: when collapsing a comment chain, the page moves down




Is this when you're near the bottom of the page, or does it include when you're in the middle or near the top?




Accessibility issue/personal complaint: animated gifs for user badges are crazy fucking distracting.




I've honestly thought of just turning animation off but haven't had the time to do that. There's probably an easy way to do it.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				[META] A Whole Host Of Completed Minor Changes
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Yeah, you're not wrong.


I think the entire Quality Contribution display thing is slated for some kind of a revamp, though I haven't started on that yet.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				[META] A Whole Host Of Completed Minor Changes
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Dangit, I thought we fixed that one. Bug re-opened.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				[META] A Whole Host Of Completed Minor Changes
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Hrm, that's an interesting one.


I'm tempted to say "no, intentionally", because I want to know what you think about specific subjects; if people really are posting too much on one subject, in a way that's against the rules, I want people to be giving the appropriate feedback.


On the other hand I don't want people driven away from volunteering because of that . . .


. . . but if it's that much of an issue, maybe that needs dealing with on a level that isn't the volunteer system.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Friday Fun Thread for July 28, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
This is definitely not a conventional first step into 3d graphics programming, then :)


But what you're basically looking at is to take all the objects in the world in an area and doing CSG operations on it. From there, you'd be looking at some form of leak detection or verification that it's a single closed mesh - you'll also want to cap off the sky and make geometry walls around the area you're testing, of course.


How you expose it to the user is a major part of tool development, but IMO the algorithm here is going to be the hard part, so to start with, just hack up something that works and don't worry about making it pretty. Later, ideally you'd want some kind of visualization that can point out the issue (the fact that this is in a game and intended for modding means that you could in theory plop down a 3d waypoint and just direct the user there, but for gamedev people would want an external tool built into the editor; I don't offhand know how that works with Skyrim, is there an editor? If possible, integrate with it!)


You are definitely going to have a bunch of weird issues, but the good news is you also have a huge existing test suite - specifically, "Skyrim" - so if you can automate running this over the entire world then that'll do a lot to hammer out the issues.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of July 31, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
I mean, I get the joke, but that doesn't really solve the issue, it just sort of snarkily bypasses it.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of July 17, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
At some point this comes down to "mods' discretion, there's no way to formalize decisions like this, unfortunately".


I think it probably would, though, at least if it didn't feel pretty natural.


("Like most issues, this reminds me of THE BATTLE OF THERMOPYLAE, which I will now describe in vivid detail for the seventh time today")


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of July 17, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
So, here, I'm gonna post this in the main thread, but I'll show it to you first (and I guess anyone else who checks my comment page, hi there!) Here's the current prototype for the single-issue-poster rule:




We occasionally have trouble with people who turn into single-issue posters, posting and commenting only on a single subject. We'd like to discourage this. If you find yourself posting constantly on a single subject, please make an effort to post on other subjects as well.


This doesn't mean you need to write megaposts! This can be as simple as going to the Friday Fun Thread once in a while and posting a few paragraphs about whatever video game you last played. But this community is fundamentally for people, and if a poster is acting more like a propaganda-bot than a person, we're going to start looking at them suspiciously.


This rule is going to be applied with delicacy; if I can find not-low-effort comments about three different subjects within your last two weeks or two pages of comments, you're fine.




Does that work?




Is @fuckduck9000 correct that I should be more vociferously calling out apparent bad-faith posters who purport to share some funhouse-mirror version of my views?




Honestly I'd like it if everyone did that more often :V


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				[META] A Whole Host of Minor Changes
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Yeah, just bad luck. I'm thinking that we really do need to do a mod recruitment round, which requires some annoying infrastructure work first.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Wellness Wednesday for July 5, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
I haven't, but it seems difficult; most of the hard part of documentation is capturing subtleties, and I'm not sure you can give GPT enough code for it to figure out what it needs to mention.


Improving documentation, though, that seems really possible, and in fact I think I'm going to try that out next time I rotate around to my library project.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Wellness Wednesday for July 5, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


Hell, I even thought of pinging you when I saw this mod come out:






https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2996971119




Hah, entertaining. Hadn't thought of that one myself :D


From a gameplay standpoint . . . I dunno, one downside to stuff like this is that it makes it much easier to grind specific difficult jobs. It's kind of weird if you have a doctor just waiting for someone to get injured so they can chaintend them for the next three days straight, right? Maybe "xp is granted only for the first tend" but now we're adding weird unintuitive explanations to it. And this still cuts down a lot on the risk factor of choosing who gets tended with what medicine.


I think this might be an example of something that (1) doesn't result in good gameplay, and (2) isn't even necessarily realistic - like, if an apprentice doctor cleans a wound badly, well, it's possible they did damage that cannot be fixed, and if we're diving so deep into this that we're trying to simulate that as well then the question becomes "is this the best use of developer time or can we find something to work on with better bang for buck".




(Another thing that drives me up the wall is the inability to have multiple doctors perform procedures in parallel or cooperatively, from a gameplay perspective it would certainly make having more than 1 or 2 or them worth it, or multiple pawns working together at all)




This sort of thing might just be code complexity; Rimworld's job system doesn't really support "two people working on one project", and it's unclear if it would be worth building it just for something like this. (In this context, "actions on a specific character" is a project - the character is locked until the task is finished, so even "two people working on unrelated surgery jobs" would be hard to implement.)


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Wellness Wednesday for June 14, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Sure, go for it :) If it's successful that's honestly good incentive for getting something like that going.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				[META] Something Shiny and Two Things Boring
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
If you feel up to writing a developer-friendly bug description and either have or don't mind getting a Github account, put it straight on the Git page.


If you want to talk to developers and either have or don't mind getting a Discord account, come hang out in the dev discord (and if you know Python we can always use help :V).


Otherwise, honestly, here is fine, I don't mind getting bug reports!


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				[META] Something Shiny and Two Things Boring
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Hah, probably just isn't decorating that mouseover properly.


I'll put that in the bug list, thanks!


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				[META] Something Shiny and Two Things Boring
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					


I take you argument as roughly








Right now the rules have false negatives, but if we change them to fix those false negatives, we'll end up having false positives






Yeah, that's a reasonable paraphrase.




And true/false positive debates are ultimately quantitative and we can't even express the tradeoffs we believe in, let alone actually argue whether we're on one side or another (i.e. what does "every 1% increase in censorship" even mean?).




Oh yeah, you are absolutely right there. I don't have even remotely the tools I need to formalize any of this, I'm workin' in the dark.




That said, I think there's a pretty clear alternative which is the Victorian Sufi Buddha Lite policy: if you're going to say something mean about somebody, it should be necessary and true.






This has always been my preferred philosophy for moderation, and it's also puzzled me why it's never been part of TheMotte moderation (given our ancestry). After these discussions I'm guessing the moderators here agree it's too restrictive for discussion.




If anything, the problem isn't that it's too restrictive, it's that it's too lax. How do you judge "necessary"? If the poster judges it, then the site turns into a flamewar because everyone thinks it's absolutely necessary to flame their opponents. If the mods judge it, then we're right back to Maximally Subjective Moderation, and I admit we're close to that anyway but we at least try to avoid that when possible.


				

				

						

							

								
							

						


						
					

				
			


			

	


			
			
				

			
		

	






		

			
			
				Culture War Roundup for the week of April 24, 2023
			
		

	

	

	

		
			

			

				

			

		

			


				

					
Alright, quick mod request. Most of this is fine, but there's a few bits that are stated as fact and really need some backing up:




Japan of the 1950's was in the throes of a Judeo-American imposed cultural revolution.






in the past 50 years the US has seen over 100 thousand white people murdered by black criminals.






Jews and catholics running the show,




I recognize you fleshed one of those out later, which I appreciate, but - "Proactively provide evidence in proportion to how partisan and inflammatory your claim might be." - that's pretty partisan and pretty inflammatory and needs some level of backup.