cjet79
Anarcho Capitalist on moral grounds
Libertarian Minarchist on economic grounds
User ID: 124
cjet79
2yr ago
I don't think it is a white thing at all. It is just that white people are currently on top of the empire heap. At various times muslim empires, chinese empires, monghol empires, and persian empires have all adapted a mindset of "any race can be part of the empire, as long as they serve the empire". And it wasn't a matter of human decency, but practicality. God knows, the Monghols weren't big fans of "human decency", they were too busy creating mountains of skulls.
If your empire and your culture has won in all the essential ways that matter then extermination is not just unnecessary it is wasteful. Integration is better. I see western civilization as having "won" a global competition at the moment. They can't grow further through birth rates, and they don't have the energy or desire for outright subjugation. Its a memetic war at this point, and if you have ever listened to Imams or cultural leaders in non-western nations they all complain that the West is winning that war. Winning it easily without even paying attention to the fact that others are even fighting back (or at least not paying attention until that desperate flailing graduates to the level of actual death and destruction via terrorism).
cjet79
2yr ago
That intersection also requires they are interested in the restaurant and know about it.
Mis-behaving asian kids don't exist and black students in honor classes don't exist in large enough numbers for a single class among 1000 students?
cjet79
2yr ago
The case of AA is actually one of the reasons why I would advise people to not go looking for racial spoils. It doesn't help in the long-term because people re-adjust their expectations (as you have done). The personal narratives involved in receiving that kind of help also seem very toxic to self-achievement. AA is a case where social enforcement of race based beliefs has lead to race based information being more salient, which is one of the caveats I talked about above. The more we make race matter, the more it will matter. The less we make it matter, the less it will matter. And as I said you are not in traffic, you are traffic. Same applies to society.
For understanding the overall world, and its history, it is quite possible that race and genetics are helpful pieces of additional information. I didn't want to commit to race never being useful information. I just don't think most people are engaged in sweeping attempts to understand history.
To use your example of running into a young male in a hoody at night, yes you should be significantly more concerned if he was black, the stats don't lie. Certainly you should avoid being in that situation in the first place, but feel no shame about crossing the street well in advance.
The stats in many ways do lie. Put someone in poverty. Add violence to their upbringing. Have them be young and male. You have a recipe for ciminality. Many of the people in this position in certain countries happen to be black. It is not them being black that is causing them to be criminal. Being able to identify a white person that was raised in these circumstances is purely advantageous.
The clothes and the context are still doing most of the work for you. Change the clothes to a business suit, and be in a nice area of town. Suddenly you being worried about being mugged by the black business man is an absurd level of paranoia and fear on your part.
cjet79
2yr ago
It's just common sense that if one race commits murder at 5x-10x the rate of other races that you should be more cautious around those people.
There is plenty of white trash in America, and living in some American cities. My argument would lead to more caution, not less caution. Don't let your guard down in a bad section of town just because the gang-banger look-alike walking towards you is white instead of black. The giveawayis the gang-banger look, not their race. If instead its a black man in a business suit walking towards you, then yes you are paranoid for thinking he is about to mug you.
I don't think you made the case for why it's beneficial. Black people get extra college spots, better chances at government contracts, preferential hiring at practically every job and extremely favorable representations in pop culture. That's all because they banded they banded together and pushed for their racial interests as a group.
This does remind me that I missed a section I meant to add for the college part. Both opportunity and execution matter. Being given opportunities that you can't execute on is not a benefit. I think people that get a racial boost outside of their achievable range are done a disservice. If your race is winning a spoils system, people tend to know, and they discount everything you have done with that in mind. Long-term I don't really think it is a benefit. I somewhat prefer my current position as a race and gender that is not clearly winning a spoils system. People know that what I have done and what I have earned I have done so through mostly my own effort.
I'll take this guy without a moment's hesitation. I reject the premise that they wouldn't have any skills and would turn to crime, people don't steal to eat in America they do it for drugs or luxury goods. Plus his kids will be exactly like mine but immigrant's kids are more likely to revert to the genetic mean.
Intermarriage and procreating with your own descendants is not advisable. It is far more likely to lead to genetic deficiencies than procreation with a person of a different race.
Even if they don't they will almost certainly adopt memes about how oppressed by white people they are and vote accordingly.
They will adopt those memes to their own detriment. A degree of belief in your own self-determinism is more helpful to your success than a belief that you have been oppressed.
cjet79
2yr ago
I would advise avoiding all young males in dark alleys, regardless of race. The relevant information there is Age, Gender, and Context.
cjet79
2yr ago
What if I am trying to assess groups?
Groups are composed of individuals. And it is very unclear what signals you are supposed to take from a racially non-homogenous group. Clothing, disposition, gender, current activity, and age all seem like better stereotyping options.
Am I supposed to treat a group of Asian males hanging out up ahead the same as I would treat a group of black males?
I'd say you shouldn't really bother assessing the race, because a bunch of other characteristics about the group will give you a much better sense. What activity do they seem to be doing? Are they laughing and joking around? Do they seem drunk? Is this an area known to have gangs? Are other people avoiding them? Honestly I tend to avoid any group of drunk young males.
Or, suppose I have successfully taught for years in an all-black school, and have relied heavily on class participation as a pedagogical tool. If I transfer to an all-Asian school, should I not think about changing my pedagogy?
You should always be thinking about your pedagogy. Socio-economic class and general school culture should be learned before you start teaching. Ask other teachers what they do. At no point should you be like "oh they are all of x race, therefore teaching method y will work." If you do that you are probably a terrible teacher.
Or if I am in HR at a school district, and am placing a teacher who tells me his greatest weakness is classroom management, should I not use him for a vacancy at an all-Asian school rather than sending him to an all-black school?
Typically race correlates with things that matter. But it is rarely if ever the actual thing that matters. What if the teacher would be teaching the flunkies, dropouts, and mis-behaving kids at the asian school, and the honors students at the all black school? And what assumptions are you supposed to make if the school has and classroom has a mixed racial makeup like all American schools are mandated to have.
I don't think I'll be litigating any more specific examples. All of your new examples still point to Race being a weak correlate with things that matter. And typically in real world scenarios you have much more access to easier acquire pieces of information, and higher quality sources of information.
cjet79
2yr ago
I started writing a post for the culture war thread, and it got longer than I thought it would so I ended up just posting it as its own thread. I know some people don't always see those threads, so I thought I'd post a link here. I'm open to discussing it in either location:
https://www.themotte.org/post/604/the-case-for-ignoring-race
The Case for Ignoring Race
There are two arguments I want to push forward. The first is about ignoring race in your personal life. Ignoring your own race, and ignoring the race of others around you. And the second argument is to ignore race in the policy space. Ignoring race in college admissions, immigration, crime, etc. I also don't want to make the case that only white people should ignore race. I think it is generally beneficial for everyone to ignore race, but I'm guessing that most of the racial identitarians (people who place great importance on racial identity) that are here on themotte are white racial identitarians.
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Summary
Race is clearly a thing that exists. Genetic differences exist across races. The simplest proof is in people's skin pigmentation. However, genetics doesn't have to dictate anyone's destiny. Genetics can be barriers to unlimited possibilities, but your final place within a large set of possibilities is up to you.
And because race and genetics do not fully dictate who a person is, those characteristics do not provide good information about an individual that isn't obtainable in a myriad of other more reliable ways.
cjet79
2yr ago
I don't really like to watch videos.
Given that you are posting this story, and they are protesting a pride parade I just figured they were thinly veiled neo Nazis. Probably not very sympathetic to a jury.
cjet79
2yr ago
I wonder if jury trials are not a smart move for them. Maybe a resident lawyer knows, but I always got the sense that jury trials could just turn into a mood affiliation thing. Not liking someone makes you more likely to think of them as guilty.
cjet79
2yr ago
I've seen articles to the effect that DEI positions are already heavily hit with layoffs.
cjet79
2yr ago
Russell Brand might be your "creative songbird". He has hosted shows and podcasts where he willing to talk with people that have radically different views.
cjet79
2yr ago
Politically the federal government will want Texas to remove these barriers. Practically I don't see that happening anytime soon. Fastest way to remove them would be for the federal government to do it. Which would allow Abbott and Texas to score political points.
Also, are we even sure that Abbott asked for these barriers? Or did he just get forced into these circumstances. Some local guys started manufacturing and setting them up. And Abbott is forced to co-opt it because his other options suck. If he didn't want the barriers his options are:
- Say he didn't want them and appeal to the feds to have the barriers removed. Shows he has no control over his state.
- Decide he doesn't want them and have his own people remove the barriers. Showing that he isn't serious about illegal immigration and losing local political support.
cjet79
2yr ago
I think there is maybe a world where the argument makes sense.
If you've ever seen good will hunting, imagine every troubled youth had a therapist/helper like Robin Williams' character.
You could probably cut out a lot of crime with an army of competent caring people. This is probably what people imagine when they make the suggestion.
They maybe just think this is way cheaper than all of us think. So it comes down to haggling about costs and prices.
cjet79
2yr ago
Just to clarify, these kinds of posts are fine in the culture war thread. We have not created any explicit rule against these types of posts, and we have never enforced anything against them.
A minor history lesson:
The original culture war threads were just discussion threads where culture war topics were allowed rather than completely banned.
A bunch of rules have arisen over time to handle how culture war topics are handled and presented, but at no point were non-culture war topics banned, it's just that they defacto did not show up in the culture war threads because those topics were allowed to happen elsewhere in the community.
Basically the culture war thread was set up as fence to keep culture war topics in rather than to keep other topics out.
cjet79
2yr ago
Something that doesn't require us to meet in person was all I meant by online. I haven't actually used any online D&D things. I was talking about it with two other users while playing starship troopers.
cjet79
2yr ago
Its often impossible for us to tell whether they are trolls or sincere users. I'm of the opinion that it doesn't really matter. If someone posts low effort crap because they are dumb, or because they are smart and running a 4d chess trolling, the end result is the same: there is low effort crap to be cleaned up.
There is very little you can do as a user. The volunteer system is still a thing, and that does help us a bit. Acting as community police can sometimes backfire, because it starts fights rather than ends them. Also I wouldn't be a huge fan of white nationalists policing each other's views and getting into a purity spiral on here.
If you want this forum to stay interesting and healthy I would suggest you cultivate other interests that are relevant here on the culture war threads. Then whenever you come to the culture war thread if you see that a race based topic has already been started you should post about your other interest instead. If you implement this advice and suddenly start to think "hey some idiot wasted my chance to have interesting discussion on the race topic by posting some low quality crap" then you will understand why we try to moderate low effort posts.
I've found that most people that have a single topic of interest have a real blind spot to other people's level of toleration for that topic. If you only like that one topic, you might be fine with 90% of the conversation being around that topic. If you hate that topic then you might feel that even 10% of the conversation spent on that topic is too much. And having interesting conversations with people is the limiting resource on this forum, so don't be surprised when even non-moderators complain about you stinking up the commons. Whatever your preferred amount of discussion about race is, everyone else who doesn't want to talk about it thinks that number is way too high.
I was a moderator over at slatestarcodex when we did the topic ban on race discussions. I recommended against it then, and I'd recommend against any topic bans right now. Based on my general sense from the other mods we are very very unlikely to ever to do a topic ban. The exception to that will probably be if encounter legal issues. But we also aren't going to ban people from saying 'jeez this topic is talked about way too much, we're really beating a dead horse here'. There is a certain amount of community policing that tends to arise on its own for over-done topics. And as I mentioned above, community policing often creates more fights than it ends. This is why I suggest having other interests. If the community heat level on the race topics starts getting too high, switch to your other interest. Without that ability to switch you just become part of a feedback loop.
cjet79
2yr ago
Amadan and I see additional topics because we are moderators. Plenty of things get filtered out and never removed from the filter. Lately, almost all of that filtered stuff is white nationalist type rants, and sometimes just fully copy pasted articles like above. Since the inception of this website our worst content violations have been ... white nationalist might not be the right word, since I doubt you'd want to associate with them. But users like die[n-words]die, with accompanying images in their profile.
As moderators, we really can't just completely ignore the white nationalist threads. We still have to enforce the rules here. So when fights flare up I have to go read the relevant threads. And the race threads are either consistently causing problems, or common enough that there is a constant influx of reports from those threads.
Basically the white nationalist types are bad neighbors. They move in and cause all kinds of fights and problems. As soon as you allow any of them in you have to create a strict dividing line to keep out their worst elements. And then when you point out these problems we are asked to pretend that they are not coming a single group. That group has claimed that they receive unfair discrimination from just about everyone. Does any of this sound familiar? How would you suggest handling such a troublesome group?
cjet79
2yr ago
It is too much to ask if those discussions crowd out everything else.
Just on a practical level if white nationalist talk floods the forum, it will cease to be an interesting forum to non-white nationalists.
cjet79
2yr ago
@self_made_human and @FarNearEverywhere This thread isn't very helpful, please don't.
cjet79
2yr ago
Didn't realize the post was being filtered. I removed it from the filter, so now it should be visible.
It was just a low effort post from a user that has been warned and banned for this issue.
There have also been some other top level posts this week that were on the edge of getting a warning for being low effort, so it was also convenient that their was a post to be made an example of.
There are different update rates before everyone knows the same information. If some know it now, more will know it in the future. Eventually common perceptions will flip. They've arguably only the advantage of AA for a single generation. That is not enough time.
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