hydroacetylene
No bio...
User ID: 128
hydroacetylene
9hr ago
Ex-cons are often legally forced to work, too- employment is usually a condition of parole(which is probably most prison releases) and probation(which they usually wind up on).
There are certain jobs in America so shitty that they can get done by unfree labour(eg, out of the probation office- they are required to be employed) or by third worlders using the wage differential as the equivalent of working on an offshore rig, with no third option. Disproportionately, these are not jobs we can just do without(otherwise we probably would).
hydroacetylene
10hr ago
Meatpacking plants happily hire American citizens. It's just a shitty job, so staffing is always hard, so illegals get hired because they're used to shitty jobs.
hydroacetylene
10hr ago
I see lots of complaining about child support payments and the like, even by those generally skeptical of girlboss women's lib.
hydroacetylene
10hr ago
Yes on both counts.
hydroacetylene
11hr ago
Ok.
hydroacetylene
12hr ago
hydroacetylene
12hr ago
I grew up in an actually socially conservative bubble, in the hardcore twenty percent or so of Americans(so this would be the hardcore 10-15 percent or so of working age native whites, even in the Bush era). Going to church every Sunday was the right thing to do; Mohammedans and atheists were inherently untrustworthy. The blacks are racist too, and responsible for the problems in their community(I was of course warned not to repeat this in public). Fornication is bad, actually, but it happens and needs to be dealt with- and if an eligible man was known to be sexually active with a woman he had to marry her, even if she wasn't his preference or he had other plans. Homosexuals are (mental and sexually transmitted)disease ridden perverts. Gender roles and real and not optional. Women shouldn't be in the military. Marijuana is an evil drug, much worse than alcohol. The 'liberal elite' pushes bad values on purpose; I remember much bellyaching about how they had recently succeeded in making bikinis the overwhelming default, and when I was a bit older about themes in Harry Potter and Twilight. Better be spanked as a child than hanged as an adult(and few, if any, of the people around me had sympathy for criminals). A woman's father had the right- and in many cases, the responsibility- to veto a marriage, and maybe even a dating relationship. Ideally the woman should stay home with her kids, unless she was a teacher, but in either case the man was responsible for the bills. Society was going to collapse because the government uses our tax dollars to push bad morals which make people unproductive; that's why people are dumber, less virtuous, and grow up slower than in the fifties. You can't get a divorce just for falling out of love- the man has to be violent or not holding down a job, or the woman has to be an awful mental case, or somebody has to be addicted to drugs, or something.
I don't say these things so the motte can litigate them. I say them to point to the sine qua non which made the worldview work- different people have different roles in society, mostly due to their membership in various classes(age, gender, social class, maybe sometimes race). As a male youth it was my duty to protect my sister if we went to a social event together, and it was more important that my schooling focus on getting me into a good job which would one day pay the bills for a family. My sister had more household chores(well, in the conventional sense- I had to mow the lawn etc but lots of people don't count yardwork as housework) because it was important that she learn how to do ironing and baking and stuff that I wouldn't need. I was told in no uncertain terms that if I got a girl pregnant or lived with her I would have to marry her, even if I was in love with someone else or had other plans(and my male cousins have pretty much all followed this rule when they took concubines)- although the ideal was obviously a white wedding. And of course being that we were basically middle class I would have to provide a basically middle class standard of living- homeownership and stable employment and going places in cars and the like. My parents threatened to kick me out when I expressed my desire not to go to university, and only relented when I found an HVAC apprenticeship- because it was my job as a middle-class man to have a career, not just a job. These are of course an illustration.
I don't see this mentality from, shall we say, 'converts' to social conservatism. I see a lot of bemoaning about how someone else used to do better from e-trads. And I think this is a lynchpin that's missing which makes a bunch of it 'larping' or 'cargoculting' or whatever; the motte likes to talk about it from time to time. But y'know, social conservatism works off of 'who you are makes x,y,z your job and not doing it even when you don't want to makes you a bad person'. Lots of people like to talk about this- positively or negatively- about women's domestic or familial expectations. I don't think focusing on 'a man's role' or whatever is the missing piece I think you just... can't talk about it without talking about it intersectionally. 'How does everyone fit into society' is a question that needs to be answered and if you've already decided personal characteristics are the way to go about it, well...
I feel like this discussion is the missing ingredient to lots of the topics du jour. Let's take the leftward drift of young women- well social conservatism today seems to have, uh, not discussed what other people owe to them, only what they owe to other people. Is it any wonder that the victimhood narrative from runaway woke is more appealing? Or the disagreements over immigration; we no longer have a class of people whose obligation is to do manual agricultural labor(and most of the historical people who did this did it as an obligation, not a job; serfdom and the corvee is the historical norm). The modern American right seems to simply lack the actual difference between itself and progressivism; it differs only in accidentals(I'm pretty open about voting republican because they protect my right to be socially conservative, and not because they'll push social conservatism). I don't think this mentality can come back from the government, but only from intermediating institutions that democrats would like to punish for doing their job and pushing this. But this is the key difference; most adults have probably worked it out for themselves but nobody ever says it out loud.
hydroacetylene
13hr ago
the U.S. is more linguistically, religiously, ethnically, and racially diverse than it has ever been.
I don't know about that. In the past there were entire states which mostly didn't speak English(Lousiana and New Mexico have both had governments that did not operate in English).
hydroacetylene
13hr ago
No, Marines have their own special forces and the fallback for that is usually 'normal getting shot at' jobs like machine gunner and infantry grunt. IIRC the most usual path into force recon is to try to transfer from normal light infantry anyways.
hydroacetylene
13hr ago
Alcoholism forces the lowest social classes to hold a job and then die when they get to be too old to work anymore, which is broadly what society wants from them. Alcohol is an important social lubricant in not-rigorously structured societies like the west.
hydroacetylene
13hr ago
I have a theory that college girls sometimes get nose rings to say 'I'm old enough now' when they're not otherwise clearly distinguished from teenagers.
hydroacetylene
13hr ago
The QoL of agricultural grunt workers has, in every society in history, been pretty bad. Yes, you can entice some college kids to do a bit of it over the summer for unlimited booze and sex, but I am very skeptical they'll do enough of it to replace migrants. 'Picking crops' is just a job that always inherently sucks.
The cost advantage of illegals is also not the only reason that illegals are preferred by lower blue collar employers; I don't know if you've met native white and black trash but they're both just awful. Drugs, dysfunctional relationships, poor communication and attendance, legal issues, poor conflict-management, unreliability, theft and dishonesty, laziness, etc are way worse among our native underclass- and illegals are themselves not necessarily role models with that stuff. Lots of them are essentially unemployable because that's who's left over in a society like the US where huge majorities of functional and capable people 'make it' out of having to do shitty unskilled labor for a living.
hydroacetylene
13hr ago
As I keep saying, the conditions required to 'keep farms running so we can stock the shelves with a variety of produce' are not great, and first worlders will not do it without compulsion(or, I suppose, being deluded into halfway doing this for brief periods of time on partyfarms). Likewise lots of heavy construction labor etc.
Americans should mow their own lawns, watch their own children, etc. But the idea that we can replace illegal migrants and roustabouts with middle class whites is farcical. Manual laborers are by definition not middle class, at least when they're doing temporary grunt work.
hydroacetylene
13hr ago
Middle class whites should not plan on doing crappy grunt work for a living. A certain amount of unfair labor practices is necessary to keep a society running and as far as I'm concerned a few Oaxacans and Hondurans are a win-win way to get that done. We don't need to import millions of welfare cases and deliveroo drivers but turning a blind eye to some construction and agriculture workers of questionable legality is better for everyone.
The underclass already lives a very similar lifestyle, just more degenerate. It would be great if they could be forced to do more work and less drugs, I just have little faith in their ability to do so(we're several generations past the point at which people who are willing to do work instead of drugs stop being poor in this country).
White non-underclass youths that want to make something of themselves usually do; they go from digging ditches for a plumber to assisting the plumber laying pipe to being a plumber themselves. I don't see the problem unless it's with 'there are Hispanics in the vicinity'.
hydroacetylene
13hr ago
No, this was his currently married wife. I don't know if she divorced him or not(I'm happier not being further involved in this woman's life), but the mistress insisted on meeting his family.
It did not go well and he broke up with her. This is the ending of the story as far as I know, and I'm pretty happy with that. I don't know if the wife knew about his cheating but was OK with it being discreet(these women exist), or if she was blindsided. But the mistress was clearly crazy.
hydroacetylene
16hr ago
Yes, you can charm white liberal arts major women into doing farming for a few months at a time, and there will always be guys showing up to agglomerations of naive and easy women. But if hippie communes were able to compete with migrant worker driven industrial agriculture they'd be doing it; there's certainly enough market for organic goods.
hydroacetylene
16hr ago
Loaning money to the underclass/drug users is almost always a bad decision on the individual level, but there's plenty of legitimate businesses which make it their business model- payday loans, online gambling, etc. That's basically what's fueling doordash. It's probably a net advantage for a drug dealer.
hydroacetylene
16hr ago
Some of this is mental illness from childhood trauma, often combined with main character syndrome. I once knew a woman who was sobbing because her boyfriend's family didn't like her- ok, reasonable enough, except the family in this case was his wife and teenaged daughter that she'd insisted on meeting. Poor theory of mind, narcissism, some garden variety mental illness...
But also, uh, they're looking for guys like their dads, who probably acted like that, because that's their model for how men are. She's probably never gotten to know an upstanding family man. She may not know they exist. I admit to having a poor theory of mind for why underclass women don't just avoid men(goodness knows they don't get much out of it). But empirically the instinct to stick close to a man is stronger.
hydroacetylene
16hr ago
The point was you can get significantly below market(and priced to match) housing really easily. You don't need to be plugged into the wetback network, and roustabouts are not known for their robust network building anyways. Go ask around at waffle house. Look on craigslist. The white trash underclass lives in very similar conditions, after all. Non underclass whites don't do this, but that's because they don't want to.
There's this motte conceit that you can't live like the other half. Yeah, you can, and pretty easily too.
hydroacetylene
16hr ago
China has many people who are far more desperate than America for similar reasons to Mexico(it's a middle income country with high income inequality), and also doesn't have full freedom of movement. People who have the option to be laborers in cities will prefer that to being agricultural laborers.
hydroacetylene
18hr ago
I'm going to push back on this- no doubt you can get some heiresses to work on the partyfarm, but agricultural work is sufficiently terrible that it requires non-free or at least desperate labor to get done in sufficient quantities. Guatemalans, convicts, helots, the corvee- this is who's always done heavy farm work.
Now operating machines is fun and sexy and high status, so mechanization changes that, but some farming will probably never be mechanized. The alternative to strawberry pickers from Chiapas is either a) enslaved strawberry pickers[in America, these would probably be prisoners] or b) not having strawberries. Now migrant labor doesn't have to change the demographics of the country- we could send them back to Honduras or Oaxaca or wherever to enjoy their pay in a much lower cost of living locale when the season is over- but let's be real here, America isn't going to do the smart thing.
hydroacetylene
18hr ago
They often live in illegal accommodations, requiring less funds, and these require a network that natives aren’t a part of
You, as a white American, can find these illegal accommodations really easily. Craigslist has some of them listed, but you can also just go to the back of a restaurant kitchen and ask.
Illegals are preferred to the native underclass partly because they cost less, but much more because they just cause less trouble, and the standard of living difference isn't the main driver of the cost difference- the native underclass uses their extra income over illegals for drugs, not better food or accommodations(and illegals probably make up for their lower hourly rate by working longer hours anyways).
hydroacetylene
18hr ago
Man, meatpacking plants are the most diverse place I've ever been around. Spanish is definitely the main language, but English might not be #2- it's probably vying with a half dozen south and southeast Asian tongues. Only places I've ever been around where the white and black Americans stick together in contrast to the other groups have been meatpacking plants.
hydroacetylene
18hr ago
I'm not aware of Turok aligning himself with the radical left, although he clearly does not like Trump or the religious right.
It literally seems more implausible that he was able to pay his attorneys to bribe them than that the guards would have turned down this bribe. Prison guards are cheap to bribe and what are the gonna do, admit to committing a felony?
The guards letting it happen is the least implausible part of this story.
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