justawoman
1yr ago
I thought right-wingers hated cancel culture as it was impressing on the First Amendment? Unless right wingers think this isn’t cancelling?
justawoman
1yr ago
What would I do to make myself have more children? Hmm. At the age of 24, the barriers preventing me from having children with my boyfriend are;
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I do not have enough money to afford diapers, much less food for another person, so I would increase the minimum wage to the proper rate it should be, which is $20 an hour. I would, in the same vein, eliminate tipping as a substitute for wages as well to eliminate the hostile tipping environment and poor wages encouraged by my state’s poor labor laws. That would include eliminating all Republicans from my state’s government, as they have opposed all measures to do what is listed above.
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I am not confident that, should I approach trying to build a career in my state with a child, that I have protections from corrupt, lazy and immoral business owners who would abuse their position of authority over me to compromise my work/life balance. So, I would replace my state’s labor laws with laws similar if not exactly to California, so that I could, for example, have a lunch break and maternal leave for my post-pregnancy complications.
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I cannot afford medical care for myself, much less my children. I suppose with higher wages that would be solved on it’s own, but if not, I would change whatever policies need to be changed to decrease the cost of medical care. I am not too verbose on medical care policies to know what the causes for high costs are and how to solve them.
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My social network is dangerous for children, as it consists of social conservatives who will try to shame my children into gender roles and disrespect my choices as a parent, and I would not want to reach out for help from them in an emergency. If I had higher wages, I would not need to work so much and I could spend time developing friendships to replace my network. If not that, reducing the cost of interstate travel so I could move to a state with a locale more suitable to my personality would solve that problem. I am not too sure what policies need to be enacted to solve high-cost interstate travel, as I am not verbose in those policies as well.
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Emotionally, me and my boyfriend are recovering from the effects of growing up in an abusive, socially conservative household, and need therapeutic services to confirm we won’t pass our issues to our children. I supposed lowering the cost of therapists falls in the same category as “decrease medical costs”.
I have little desire to speak outside of this thread sadly, as most people here believe I am fundamentally lesser than them and so cannot converse with me in good faith. And as to your attitudes about women, as I said below, it is impossible to believe someone is lesser than you, have general animosity about their biology, choices and personality, and have a conversation with them in good faith, much less treat them well in an private, intimate setting. I am sure most the men you know who secretly think their wives are silly and immature are not very happy behind closed doors. No sane, healthy person wants to be in a relationship and therefore spend time and money with someone they consider beneath them.
Unfortunately, anecdotes are neither facts nor sufficient evidence to say absolute statements such as "Women do not know what they want.", which is unfortunate to see in a space that espouses value in objectivity and facts.
Edit: do you have any evidence that men are funnier than women?
Edit...Edit?: Opposing his claims assumes he respects me enough to listen to my argument in good faith. He already believes I am "extremely passive when it comes to approaching and will not take initiative to… initiate". He doesn't care much for my thought process and would likely be glad to have me continue to abstain. However, I think if you want to continue to talk to me you'll have to respond with a reply instead of an edit.
justawoman
1yr ago
But did I say, "Have you considered that you're a piece of shit and that's why you suck?" No. I said, "I would recommend that loveless men consider one solution to their lack of success in the dating market is to re-examine their overall attitude about women and see if that isn’t playing a part as to why women are not responding the way you want them to." I'm not too sure where I called anyone pieces of shit or told them they sucked in that sentence, nor where I chided men for failing at being attractive (?) and feeling destitute.
Bad interactions with an individual don't justify vilifications of the collective. A similar argument I've seen is that Germany's economic destitution did not justify their genocide of the Jews as a "common response to being poor", because there are people every day who lose money and become despite and don't resort to racism. Similarly, having bad experiences with women and the resorting to villainizing all women as children is more of a "you" problem than a "society" problem.
justawoman
1yr ago
Is it not evident to me that multiple 400+ word responses carefully misunderstanding my arguments and then voicing mostly disagreement is a sign of respect and more evident that it is the expected form of discourse here if you don't want to get a ban. Talking politely to me while thinking I am not deserving of higher education, management positions and a place in the workforce because my body makes me emotional and immature is hardly what I consider to be the makeup of a person who respects me and my choices. You say, "Leave the fact you are a woman and just dive straight into the actual facts.", but did the many men here who included the fact they are men and have used mostly anecdotal evidence and subjective, absolute statements doing the same? I would say no. I would say not even you, whose only evidence I see for why men are funny is your opinion of standup comedians and your opinion on the women around you.
I decline to try, because, as I said, it is impossible to have a conversation in good faith with someone you believe is biologically inferior to you. His most charitable interpretation of me would be amusement, or benign pity, because even if my argument was sound, it would not be because my character was sound but because a monkey hitting keys on a typewriter for an infinite amount of time with almost surely type any given text, including the complete works of Shakespeare, or, a broken clock is right twice a day.
The benefit of the rules here is that I can have a conversation with people who disrespect me, not that I can have a respectful one. I am quite sure if it was not for the strict efforts of the moderation team, most men here would indeed tell me "gtfo". Instead, they say, as seen above, "you might not be the best source of actionable and effective advice here.", which I find more conductive for a conversation, yes, but not at all indicative of respect for me.
justawoman
1yr ago
I am a progressive Democrat myself, and I feel similar to you in terms of reading and learning. I myself have very little interest in “pushing back”; I find it would be absolute waste of time, and likely why you won’t find the discourse you are looking for. In my opinion, the value of a forum like this is that it allows progressives, at least such as myself, to observe a rich diversity of right-winged thinking to identify the more insidious and subtle dogwhistles indicating the traits of a conservative, so one may steer clear of them in IRL interactions.
justawoman
1yr ago
I do think there are other women that think that all women are better at makeup, parenting, nursing, etc, due to biological preferences and yes, I think it is disrespectful to men to imply that they are incapable of certain things because of their bodies. I think all men and women are capable of exactly the same things emotionally and spiritually, sans physical capabilities due to hormonal differences which can be remedied with science.
I am making it all about myself because I am a woman, and every generalized comment about women is therefore directed at me. When you say men are funnier than women, you are also saying you are funnier than me, for no other reason than because of your body. The "big deal" of you holding that opinion is that I find it's a rather illogical and mean one, and tells me you have rather poor judgement, and also if I were to meet you in real life, I should avoid trying to be funny with you and people who agree with you because you will be hostile to all of my jokes in the company of other men. You have yet to provide me any evidence men are funnier than women other than your belief. If I think men and women can be equally funny because humor is not a physical trait, does that make it trounce yours because I believe it more than you? I'd say no.
I don't know exactly how to engage with absolute statements, which are neither statistically or personally relevant. People here make big claims about women - and therefore me - with little evidence other than personal anecdotes. Your characterization of people just saying "my" group "might" not be good at things is rather charitable for statements that literally call me indecisive, immature, emotional and illogical.
justawoman
1yr ago
Trans people encounter negative outcomes from social conservatives attempting to enforce a gender binary, so if I wanted to protect my trans children from transphobia, I ought to keep them away from social conservatives, not ko-tow to them. I can do nothing about my children being trans, because it is not a choice. And if my children were not trans, social conservatives would emotionally and verbally abuse them for stepping outside of the gender binary. My sons would grow up misogynistic with little success with women, emotionally closed off from himself, his friends and his family, abusive (see misogyny) and lonely like I have seen every single conservative son of conservative parents turn out as. My daughter would have poor self esteem, be victim to abusive relationships due to that, anger issues and extreme emotional immaturity, like every conservative daughter of a conservative father I have seen.
justawoman
1yr ago
Who is "we" and what is "guiding" and what is the "proper path"?
justawoman
1yr ago
I would argue the gender binary is a construct, since the definition of masculinity and femininity are different in certain cultures, like Japan and Korea. Therefore, since it is a construct, it is arbitrary. Therefore, the elimination of the male gender role is a good thing, because it stops men from being bullied and shamed into habits and mannerisms that are not natural to them, since not all men act the same nor have the same preferences.
justawoman
1yr ago
I sincerely don’t know what “coding class signals as political” means, otherwise I would answer that question.
I believe you are asking, “Would I not hire someone if I knew they were conservative?” To answer that, I would, yes. I believe conservative ideology is incredibly abusive to both the believer and those associated with them. My evidence for this belief is partially anecdotal; every single conservative I have ever known in my life (to include myself at one point) my mother and father, my brothers, my grandparents, my boss, my coworkers, my boyfriend’s sisters, brothers and parents, and his friends hurt themselves and others around them as the expectations social conservatism puts on them clashes with their wants and desires and causes untold amounts of emotional discomfort, immaturity and agitation. I have my own objective evidence as well, but that would be too long to list for this response.
I personally trust the judgement of someone who believes in social conservatism to be so significantly impaired that yes, if somewhere down the line I were to find two applicants were equally qualified but one attended their college’s Turning Point club and the other did not, I would find the former to be a potential emotional, physical and ethical danger to my employees. I would worry they would say hurtful things to their coworkers, disrespect the authority of their supervisors and use workplace equipment incorrectly.
If you are asking me if I would hurt a conservative in real life when you say “real harm”, no. I believe social conservatism was partially born from poor emotional regulation being met with hostility and pain, and responding with more pain is not constructive.
justawoman
1yr ago
Your mistake was making generalization of all women based on the individual experiences you had which prevented you from interacting with any women. Assuming all women are deeply uncomfortable with men asking them out assumes all women share the same preferences of who, what and where they want to be asked out. There are women who do not feel terribly uncomfortable with men, friend or not, asking them out. There are women who do. There are women who you should care about making uncomfortable because they are your friends, and women who you don't need to worry too much about making uncomfortable because they are a stranger you just met. You may have been in an area that literally just didn't have someone who wanted to date you.
Assuming that you "probably" were going to fail again assumes all women have the same preferences and reactions. You should have continued to meet women, get rejected, meet more women, and eventually you would have found someone who got along with you through luck. It would have been painful to be rejected so many times, but you would have gotten used to it to the point it wouldn't be so painful it would prevent you from achieving your goals. It is not any different than making friends; would it be reasonable for me, someone who wants friends, to stop talking to other girls to try to be their friend because I have had many girls in my past who rejected my friendship with them? No. I would be told that there are so many people out there I can find at least one who wants to be my friend, if not friendly. Respecting women starts with respecting that they, like men, are not a monolithic "them" who can be controlled with a grand theory of behavior.
justawoman
1yr ago
It’s difficult to be convinced you’re logically inconsistent and unfair when the people trying to convince you are, in your own view, being exactly that.
Why would I want to debate with facts in a forum that seemed to genuinely approve of the generalized declaration: “Men are funnier than women.” being justified with with the anecdote, “Because the men in my life make me laugh more than the women.” instead of, I don’t know, “Because here is a study that concluded that estrogen affects the part of the brain that creates brevity which is the leading trait for successful comedians, please look at the data and tell me if you disagree with their methods of testing.”?
justawoman
1yr ago
I would have to think believing half of the human population is fundamentally lesser than you in emotional maturity and intelligence reaches past the range of negative attitude.
justawoman
1yr ago
You understand that if this drug is banned, women who suffer miscarriages have to carry the dead fetus and risk sepsis (whereas before they could take the pill to pass the tissue) correct?
justawoman
1yr ago
I do think conservatives are uniquely repugnant, and therefore do not consider discrimination against them bigotry, much less in a similar vein as sexism and homophobia. I reconcile this because, unlike homosexuality, poverty, sex and gender, conservatism is a choice. What you consider bigotry, I consider to be consequences. I do not think someone who chooses to be anti-authoritarian, bigoted and dishonest is a good employee for a workplace, although I sympathize that emotional abuse is a lifelong damage people suffer from, and I try to, as they say, separate the sin from the sinner. However I believe the good news is they have the ability, unlike gays, women and the poor, to change their status down the line to find a job they really want, or find someone who doesn’t care, or to actually change their mind. Therefore I would disagree as well that my motivations lie in genocide, because conservatism is not an immutable trait. In your link, genocide is defined as “in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such”. Unless conservatism is a religion or a nationality, it fits none of those descriptions.
I do not believe the people you know who are “fairly leftwing” are also “traditional” and are more likely in my opinion casual conservatives, because “traditional” families (AKA gender roles) set misogynistic and misandrist expectations for everyone involved, and sexism is not a tenant of progressivism (but is of conservatism). I know myself plenty of self-described liberals who spout misandry (and therefore reveal their misogyny) - I do not consider them to be liberals. I also do not consider religion, hunting and pickups repulsive, although I do consider traditionalism to be. Almost all of the conservatives in my life I have known have not been rural - they live in the city or suburbs, with the exceptions of my aunt, grandmother, and a family friend. So I disagree with you there are no commonalities between the culture practices of conservatives, because I have seen a farmer in Minnesota and a mayor of an affluent neighborhood and a divorced mom of two in the neighborhood ask me the same questions and have the same responses and be just as nauseating to try to converse with.
I have known no trouble understanding why “the chuds” and the city folks and the suburbias voted against their interests - because they ate Fox News every morning for breakfast and the Drudge Report for lunch and more Fox News for dinner and found a man who represented their emotional immaturity born from generational abuse kickstarted by the Industrial Revolution. I believe they wanted a man to reenact the abusive nature of their lives, and a person like Trump was bound to come along eventually.
If someone was entirely sympathetic to my motivations and lived experience, then they would also agree with my desires. It is the common good for everyone that social conservatism, much like institutional Civil War era slavery, is no longer tolerated by civilized societies, and is socially ostracized. Such as, for example, Turning Point. I do not believe that organization has anything useful to say, and so I find the motivations for why someone would want to listen to useless things dubious, unless they found it useful.
I am not interested in discussion and debate insofaras I have no expectation that my arguments will be met in good faith much less intellectual honesty and so will not put in extra effort into replying to a post that engages me.
justawoman
1yr ago
I feel it is unfortunate you find it cynical, as I find it to be rather optimistic. I am quite sure I have considered other perspectives, and have found them, in charitable terms, to be utterly fruitless. I believe my overall peace increased and my confusion decreased when I stopped giving my time to conversations which I found ultimately proved unconstructive. As a result, I like to think my capacity for mercy and forgiveness increased with my overall contentment, and where my previous necessary interactions with conservatives was, I’d say, entirely hostile, now I believe it is far more constructive when viewed from a lens of what I consider to be compassion. But I find I can only retain such compassion in the company of conservatives IRL by restricting my company with them to absolutely minimum - sans my one guilty pleasure of commenting on here.
In a space where commentators are expected to speak clearly about their beliefs so that we can try to discuss in good faith (not succeed! But try.) , I would expect that yes, when someone says here that "Men are taller than women.", they are saying, "All men are taller than women." and when someone says "Men are funnier than women" they mean "all men are funnier than women".
A meta-analysis is still subjective, anecdotal evidence, and I have my own subjective, anecdotal evidence that women can be funnier than men, so who cancels who out? Objective evidence would be much easier to discuss. When you say "false flag to make women look bad", would I be correct in assuming your are saying thus that you believe I am only arguing these beliefs because of my biology?
Edit: I should update my interpretation that when you say "false flag to make women look bad" I assume you mean that you suspect I actually don't believe what I am saying and am purposely trying to make bad arguments to make women sound sillier?
justawoman
1yr ago
Because the 10% exists at all means an 11% can exist, and therefore a 12%, and so on. Thus, it is not biologically set in stone, and thus men and women who deviate from Western gender norms are not deviants brainwashed by feminism, but simply expressing natural instincts. The culture of social conservatism versus the culture of social progressivism I would argue is so vastly different that, well, you have the existence of transgendered folks fighting against people who think they are mentally ill. The fact that there are trans women who successfully pass in public defeats the argument that women and men have unchanging traits that make them inherently different, as Western gender roles would have one believe.
justawoman
1yr ago
My father was also conservative, as was his father. I am sharing my opinions on social conservatism and the effects it has on parents and children based on my anecdotal evidence, which is that I have yet to meet a daughter of a conservative father I did not consider nor failed to witness as I described earlier, to include myself. I had a great deal of internalized misogyny which manifested into self hatred because, of many things, my father punished me for stepping outside of my gender binary and made my natural instincts and desires feel wrong. My brother is severely emotionally stunted because my father adhered to Western concepts of masculinity which encourages stoicism over vulnerability.
I am not too sure how it is any more objectively "dunking on my outgroup" to say these things than the many men here who have made antagonistic statements about women based on *their * anecdotal evidence. Subjectively, though, I can understand the reactions to my opinions, although I am not too sure what "defending the honor of our gender" means. I speak for no woman except for myself, because I believe the only thing you and I have in common (assuming you are a woman from "we") by us both being women is similar biological functions. I pushback against broad generalization of both men and women, because I find both to be equally capable of everything sans some physical capabilities which can be remedied with science.
justawoman
1yr ago
Yes! I think that a world like that would be wonderful, and I would likely have many more children than I plan to have. Maybe have them forever. The life of Julia is a life that had a robust system of safeties designed to help her when she fails and when she suceeds, such as healthcare coverage until she turns 26 to help with sudden medical emergencies and programs like Head Start to protect her from the effects of abusive parents. If any of these government programs actually forced Julia to do something she didn't want to do, I would agree that The Life of Julia promotes a "nanny" state, but nowhere did I see any federal agency or legislation that forced Julia to make a life choice. I see, in fact, Julia has many more choices and freedoms given to her with the strong social safety net I believe those programs provide.
justawoman
1yr ago
Well, I would have to disagree. I have an IQ of 110 and I don't consider those around me with a lower number inferior to me intelligently.
justawoman
1yr ago
If you think I am playing dumb and lying, I am confused about the tone of conversation your response has. Why would you want someone who you think is playing games to respond to you?
I suppose if the true goal is numbers, your proposition would work. But I consider fertility to include "successfully raising children into adulthood so they have more children". If people are having kids, but their children are dying early due to poor health standards and abuse, is that raising the fertility?
justawoman
1yr ago
"Donald Trump is a misogynist who has no trouble attracting women" is quite a subjective statement in my opinion. As I said below, no sane, healthy person wants to be in a relationship with someone who fundamentally does not see them as equal. The women who date misogynists likely have a lot of self-hatred, or are not very emotionally intelligence, or all of the other various reasons why people get into abusive relationships.
To use the fisherman metaphor that seems to be popular here; is a man really a good fisher when the fish he catches are sickly? I'd say no. Those men you say are successful with women I'd say are not successful, just good at finding insecure people with low self-esteem.
My anecdotal experience is every single conservative man I know in my life who is in a relationship is miserable. My father and mother's relationship is full of vicious, childish fighting, and so is my boyfriend's parents to the extent my boyfriend is afraid they will shoot eachother with their many illegal guns. My brother's girlfriend is obsessive and controlling and forced him to move in with her. My boss admitted to me she only married her husband because he caught her in a moment of weakness when giving birth, my other boss is telling strangers at work about her husband's various failures, and my boyfriend's ex-best friend's girlfriend threatened to cheat on him regularly. Both of my roommates' girlfriends fight with them about menial things like going to get fast food together to the point they are slamming doors and screaming, my roommates' mother is begging her husband for cocaine, and the lady I met at my job the other day mentioned her husband bought her clothes to encourage her to lose the baby weight and she was secretly returning them because she didn't want him to know she hadn't lost it.
All of these people, though, would be adamant that they are in love, that their relationship is fine, they're happily married, etc. And yet is it so further from the truth, and I feel quite sorry for them that they don't know how to leave these toxic relationships and find people who actually make them happy. I think if you think Donald Trump's relationships are the definition of happiness and success in relationships, then it shows. So, my personal response to your anecdote is that your three conservative men are dating attractive but unsatisfied and unhappy women, and your feminist friend is not dating the first neurotic, self-hating girl he finds, so understandably he will have "less success". Or, to be more charitable, your three conservative men are very good liars, and may have landed self-respecting women, but that will fall apart when their disrespect inevitably shows, and they will end up like all the other conservative men I've witnessed, and your feminist friend has bad luck. I firmly believe no sane, healthy person wants to be in a relationship with someone who considers them lesser or who they consider to be lesser.
Additionally, I didn't say, "if you just started respecting women then women would be falling over themselves to date you". I said, "I would recommend that loveless men consider one solution to their lack of success in the dating market is to re-examine their overall attitude about women and see if that isn’t playing a part as to why women are not responding the way you want them to." Certainly not the absolute statement you make it out to be. I cannot speak for the context of every man, but I can say that, in general, finding women lesser than you is going to lead to lesser relationships.
I created an account, after years of lurking, just now to respond to this thread As A Woman. And not only that, As A Liberal, Cisgendered Woman. I supposed I have strong feelings about reading all these sentiments about folks of my sex and gender and couldn’t help myself from chiming in, as I think most of the advice and ideas in this thread are useless for the lurking men reading here who actually want to date a woman.
I have seen tons of absolute and negative statements about my personality (since I am a woman and am therefore lumped in) with little evidence, and am wondering; do you, and folks in this thread who agree with you, actually want to date a woman? Because it doesn’t seem like you fundamentally respect them. It seems to me the general sentiment is that all women are emotionally immature children (without objective evidence to prove it). My subjective observation would be that that attitude - women are liars, women are picky, etc. - about women leaks out into interactions with them, and, understandably, they, or I supposed “we”, do not want to get romantically or sexually involved with someone who thinks so poorly of “us”. Well, I suppose some of “us” do, but that’s a kink lol. I would recommend that loveless men consider one solution to their lack of success in the dating market is to re-examine their overall attitude about women and see if that isn’t playing a part as to why women are not responding the way you want them to.
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