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PaperclipPerfector  1mo ago (text post)   2868 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for March 2, 2025

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.

Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.

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Hello! How do I go about deleting my account and everything I ever posted? Is that possible? I’m done with the Motte and want to wipe my account.

Edit; after further conversation, I’ve changed my mind and I’m, in fact, not done with the Motte.

  • -24

Your perception is so wrong it's a bit comical, pardon me saying. I don't participate on other debate forums and I certainly have never typed that sentence anywhere on the internet.

  • -11

This is such exquisite bait that I will bite it.

What is, exactly, the point of this post?

Ostensibly you've asked a normal question, but tb entirely h I don't buy it, not considering your bio/poasting history - especially now that you've voiced your actual complaint downthread when prompted. At a glance it really scans like you recently entered a thread full of things you do not like (discussion of the recent Trump/Zelensky cockfight, I assume), got annoyed, and now took to vagueposting to bait people into asking for the reason (as sensible people are wont to do), so you can express your perceived ick without actually having to engage with pesky chuds Russian shills directly.

I'm not usually that much of a conflict theorist, but this is such a lazy, passive-aggressive and - yes - stereotypically female mode of engagement (I'm mad and no I won't say why, except actually I will, you just gotta ask properly first) that I can't possibly think of it as being done in good faith, much less a point made "reasonably clear and plain". Functionally indistinguishable from trolling, even.

edit: Fascinating thread, probably the first real dent in my previously-immaculate impression of the mods.

I don't see what's so bad about it, and it's certainly less annoying than your making accusations and using them to paint half of the entire population with a broad brush. I'm not a huge fan of people announcing their exit, but this is certainly preferable to past users who have decided to end their time here with a long whinge about why they're leaving, complete with accusations about the mods not acting fairly since most of them were skirting perma-bans anyway.

I don't see what's so bad about it, and it's certainly less annoying than your making accusations

What's bad about it is that telling people "you have icky opinions" on a forum devoted to discussing ideas is going to be annoying when told directly, and it's doubly so when vaguepisted. No, it's not more annoying than what he did (you basically conceded the substance of his accusations).

and using them to paint half of the entire population with a broad brush.

Are you saying there are no broad differences in behavior between men an women?

Generally we don't delete accounts. You can leave if you like. If you want to delete all your posts (we'd prefer you didn't) we won't do it for you.

Except Ra****y_An***m?

(Name partially removed lest there's some reason they can't be spoken about)

No, she has not been Voldemorted, and we didn't delete her account.

But it was renamed and set to private immediately after all her content was apparently removed by a mod (according to both the moderation log and the message displayed if you try to look at any of it).

Pretty sure she set her own account to private. If Zorba actually deleted her content, I was not aware of it, or I've forgotten.

The username now redirects to retired_user, I believe.

Seconding grognard in suggesting "leave your comments and just stop reading or posting here".

If you decide that you really do want to delete all your stuff, there is no special tooling for that. That said, LLMshave gotten really good at writing code lately, and if you ask an LLM for a javascript snippet which will press the "delete" button on every comment you wrote, ChatGPT or Claude can probably provide that to you.

I really appreciate you informing me of this. Pardon the newb, but what is an LLM? And how would I execute the javascript?

  • -14

On the tiny chance this is not bait, LLM stands for "large language model" and is the sort of thing that ChatGPT and Claude are. It's an AI you can ask questions to, like "what is an LLM" or "how would I execute a snippet javascript on a web page". It will often (not always) provide useful and accurate answers, and you can ask follow-up questions.

If you build a habit of reflexively asking your LLM of choice to explain anything you don’t understand in plain language (e.g. contracts, legalese, poorly written comments from the internet) I think you will find it's pretty nice for your quality of life.

what is an LLM?

HUUUHhhhh ????????

To be fair that's way less inexplicable than "what's Ethiopia". I'm still surprised by that.

Ahaha thank you for this comment, has me dying laughing. lol.

Never presume that knowledge is universal. Someone always manages to live on the far side of the moon somehow.

If you're posting on an obscure internet forum, it's trivial to open a browser new tab, go to google.com, and search "what is an LLM?"

taps sign

  • -17

What upset you?

Why can’t you leave your posts up so threads you participated in make sense? You didn’t use your real name.

In my perspective there’s a lot of Russian propaganda talking points popping up in the Culture War chat and it’s kinda made the whole thing boring for me now. I’d like to keep my personal syntax on the internet down to sites I actively use.

  • -18

You've commented this (or something similar) multiple times without any concrete examples. Obviously "Russia is a good traditional Christian country trying to restore her rightful borders and we should support them against Nazi Ukraine" is maximum propaganda, but what does an edge case look like?

Is simply talking about Ukrainian corruption enough to be propaganda? How about bringing up the suspended elections without the context of past suspensions under total war?

Yes. “Ukrainian corruption” is a dog whistle for Russian propaganda.

Thanks for responding.

What makes any mention of Ukrainian corruption automatically propaganda? Is it the conspicuous worrying about dollars and cents when flesh and blood should be the focus?

If I said "We must support Ukraine against Russian aggression. After (and only after) we secure Ukraine's future against external enemies, we should help them root out internal corruption," would you assume me to be a propagandist?

What if I were a Ukrainian refugee, or an active soldier posting from the warzone? (I'm not. I'm a thoughtful loser with too many questions.)

If I had to guess, and apologies if I get it too wrong: You think that securing Ukraine from external threats must be completed before we even think about petty little things like corruption. Obviously every nation has nonzero corruption, but you'd be a ghoul to worry about it when people are dying. It's like checking a restaurant's accounting while the place burns down.

Again, that's only what I think you think. I do not claim to be correct about what you think. I only type it so that you can tell me how wrong I am.

And finally: Do you think I'm a Russian propagandist? Feel free to give a flat yes/no or give a percentage.

I think that if Russia takes Ukraine, the entire country will look like the Bucha massacre. Matters of corruption will not be possible because the country will be massacred; it is literally a matter of survival to them. To allow Russia to take Ukraine is to condemn its citizens to Bucha; therefore, arguments that have implications of reducing aid to Ukraine lead to only one result; Bucha.

So I think that securing Ukraine from total annihilation must be completed before we even think about petty little things like corruption. No, I don’t think you are a Russian propagandist for thinking Ukraine is corrupt. I think you’d be a propagandist if you think because it’s corrupt it deserves Bucha, which is what will happen if Russia takes the territory.

I think that if Russia takes Ukraine, the entire country will look like the Bucha massacre

I think you’d be a propagandist if you think because it’s corrupt it deserves Bucha

There's the whole disagreement right there. You cannot justifiably assume that other people share the former assertion, and if they don't share that assertion, then talking about corruption makes sense. After all, if it's a normal (meaning non-genocidal) war, then asking where the money is going makes sense.

If I told you that I think Russian victory leads to Bucha 3000, and that I were more worried about corruption, you could fairly assume that I don't give a shit about Ukrainians. However, I have never seen anyone imply that set of beliefs.

I don't think it's fair to treat all discussions of Ukrainian corruption as Russian propaganda. It would be like me claiming that the statement "Russian victory = megaBucha" is invariably Ukrainian/Western propaganda. The symmetry between that position on yours might be worth meditating on.

The hardest symmetry is that if you want people to seriously consider whether they've been hit by Russian propaganda, you need to seriously consider if you've been hit by Ukrainian propaganda, and you have to be real about it.

Cards on the table, I have no idea what's true.

Lunch break's over so I'm hitting "comment."

That sounds a bit like "talking about free speech means you're a Nazi". You can worry about corruption in Ukraine without wishing Russia to win. In fact, I think people wishing Ukraine to win should definitely worry about corruption in Ukraine because it's a drain on their resources going to somebody's pocket instead of going to get weapons and supplies. Of course one could dishonestly pretend to care about corruption while having a true aim of cutting off all aid to Ukraine and thus make them lose, that happens, but that's not the only possible option at all. Just as being a Nazi is not the only reason to want free speech, being a Russian propagandist is not the only reason for talking about Ukrainian corruption.

I’m sorry, but you are a deeply unserious person. Ukraine was widely recognized as a highly corrupt country (as was Russia) by neutral international observers for a very long time before this war began. It is simply verifiably the case that government in Ukraine, from the federal level on down, features a ton of shady money changing hands, graft, oligarchic patronage, etc. You would easily identify these features as “corrupt” in the Russian context; why are you so willing to excuse or overlook them in a Ukrainian context? It’s completely possible — trivially easy, even — to acknowledge that Ukrainian government was (and still is) corrupt and ineffectual, without thinking Russia is any better or that it gives Russia a legitimate mandate to invade.

This is the second reason why I am quitting the Motte. I am so bored of low-effort insults at my character instead of dealing with the subject of my arguments, which is directly against the rules on the sidebar. Constantly having it done with very little moderation shows me this place is not for debate, it’s to dunk on leftists. I’ve said the moderation here is not for me, and it really is.

  • -10

Report people when they break the rules, don't argue back at them. This is like, rule 0 of the Internet. Also, it's been not even an hour since the comment you are complaining about was made. It takes time for one of the mods to be online, see the report, and decide what to do with it.

I agree with you that calling you an "unserious person" is a violation of the rules. But the rules aren't a magic wand that prevents breakage. Bad comments need to be reported (especially in a thread as old as this one), and you need to be patient to let the process work. You can't hold this post up and say "see, this is why I'm quitting" when the moderators haven't even had a chance to respond yet.

I don’t have faith that my reporting is going to be met in good faith. I have a history of comments calling me trans, insulting my intellect over my gender, and general potshots at me being unserious, a troll, someone who just hates conservatives and doesn’t want to listen to other arguments, straight up mocking at my lack of knowledge despite the rules literally saying “leave the rest of the Internet at the door”. Where is the moderation there? And for a site full of people claiming they want to debate, why is there a constant stream of rule-breaking not-debating happening aimed at me?

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You didn’t even make an argument to critique, though! You just said that any discussion of Ukrainian corruption is ipso facto Russian propaganda. There’s no attempt to justify this with evidence. (Was nobody discussing Ukrainian corruption before Russia said we should? What if there’s counter-evidence of neutral parties acknowledging corruption within the Ukrainian government, regardless of anything that Russia has to say?) There’s no attempt to grapple with why somebody who is not Russia-aligned might independently arrive at the conclusion, based on observable evidence, that Ukraine’s government is corrupt relative to Western standards. It’s just “These conversation topics give me the ick.” That’s not a valuable contribution to this forum.

So, if someone makes an argument that you personally think is not valuable, it’s okay to insult them? Can I start calling you unserious for claiming to want to debate and discuss while undermining the entire ethos of the site and driving away the very people you want to argue with with low-effort pot shots? No. Because that’s against the rules, and I would be rightly moderated.

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Isn't that a bit like saying "greenhouse gasses" is "environmentalist propaganda"?

No. Saying that Ukraine deserves to be invaded and the massacre at Bucha was warranted because they didn’t have an election during wartime where parts of the country can’t vote because they are occupied by Russia is Russian propaganda.

But that's not what you said in the previous comment?

Huh? I’m confused.

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I would offer you a different viewpoint. This is just Ethiopia all over again. A clash between Realpolitik and Wilsonian's views.

Realpolitk says that Putin is entitled to half of Ukraine, because saving it whole is not worth it.

Wilsonian's says it's immoral so we should go all in.

Russian propaganda in its core is closer to Realpolitk so a lot of opinions may be viewed by this lens.

Also the European equivalent of woke have put so much of their capital and emotions into Ukraine side. And their foaming at the mouth alone is making the loss of Ukraine worth it.

I don't want Putin to win. I want Brussels to lose badly.

If Woodrow Wilson were drawing up a new Fourteen points for today, he would emphasize the right to self-determination of the people of Crimea. Western war aims include conquering Crimea to annex it into a Ukrainian land empire, perhaps as some kind of successor to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth or the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Wilson would denounce that as immoral.

I have no idea what Ethiopia, Realpolitik and Wilsonian's views are, sorry lol.

Well, see, Russian propaganda at it's core is just straight up lies, in my opinion, and that's just not fun to argue with. There's no winning to be had, alas.

  • -14

I have no idea what Ethiopia, Realpolitik and Wilsonian's views are, sorry lol.

Invasion of Ethiopia - when the league of nations bickered, so the realistic realpolitik plan - Italy to get the plains and Haile Selasie to keep the mountains never got traction since the LON was brainchild of then president Woodrow Wilson so Italy got all of it.

Realpolitik is the notion that nations should chase their own interests, be indifferent towards the internal structure of the other players and that morality moves to second place.

And well Woodrow Wilson thought that we should sing kumbaya and if we create a league of all nation and outlaw war then all the world will be at peace forever.

So from Realpolitik view invasion of Ukraine from Russia makes sense. How much support should US provide depends on US interests and it is irrelevant what Ukraine wants of needs. And Trump sees probably Ukraine as a chip to gain some favors from Russia or a proxy that just needs enough support to lose the war slowly as to bleed Russia dry.

So saying that Ukraine should take a bad deal now to avoid taking worse one tomorrow is grounded in reality. This could also be said about Palestinians after the US firmly backed Israel during the 20th century. It is Russian propaganda I guess, but it is not a complete lie the way the war is going.

Ethiopia is a country in Africa. No idea what the reference being made is, but I assume some past political event. Realpolitik is the philosophy that in politics, one must deal with cold hard reality. In this case, whether one believes Ukrainians are entitled to get their land back or not, they aren't able to take it themselves and nobody seems inclined to fight on their behalf to get it back for them. So like it or not, they should (according to realpolitik) deal with the situation that exists as best they can, not cling to vain hopes of getting their land back, because they are just going to annoy people and wind up with an even worse deal in the end than if they gave concessions now.

Ahh, thank you for the clarification.

There really are a lot of Russian talking points, aren't there? But don't you find it interesting to see how badly many quite smart people here want to believe in them? It's an endless task to try to engage with or counter all of it, nonetheless, I feel that the more misinformation and distortion I read here, the more I learn!

  • -15

My reaction is the total opposite of yours. I don’t find it interesting; actually I find it quite boring, and I’m afraid all I’ve got left in the tank is disregard.

  • -11

You don't have to read it. I often don't, beyond skimming through for posts that show more consideration than simple partisan reaction. If it feels like I've read enough and there's twice as much again left to go I collapse the thread.

Discussions here would be stale without two sides, which is what makes your own presence here worthwhile as someone who often brings a measure of balance to gendered topics, so I encourage you to consider staying on.

For me, discussion here became stale when Russian propaganda began to be seriously debated. I just can't take it seriously; it's like being at a pool party where someone poured that mythical urine-indicator dye and seeing exactly how many people are pissing in the proverbial water.

  • -12

If you don't mind me asking, how did you even find this place? This site is a quarantine site to contain the often toxic political discussions that would otherwise happen elsewhere, and the people who enter the quarantine tend to be those of us who enjoy such things for whatever reason. The site isn't really advertised anywhere, and so usually the only people who come here are the proverbial pissing in the water club.

Coming here and complaining that there are too many bad political takes feels like signing up for a poker strategy forum and complaining that they talk about and glorify gambling an unhealthy amount - arguably not wrong, but how did you even get there?

I read that famous Harry Potter fanfiction by Yud and slippery sloped all the way here.

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So now that you know what realpolitik is, how confident are you in your ability to distinguish it from Russian propaganda?

That's not my problem. My problem is I think Russian propaganda is a pretty boring topic to debate about and I can't take it seriously. I don't know how else to say it without accidentally coasting into "boo outgroup" territory.

  • -10
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I'm just waiting for it to pass, it's currently hot in the news cycle, but we will soon be able to get at each other's throats for something else

I wish I could carry on like that, but for me, it's like a bunch of people in the geography debate club became flat earthers overnight. I just can't get the taste out of my mouth.

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