Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
"Behind our efforts, let there be found our efforts."
User ID: 83
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
1hr ago
Yeah, absolutely. I didn't bother to read the comment chain properly, and so made a fool of myself.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
3hr ago
Ah, my bad. I just went off of the parent comment.
According to German news, the Charlie Kirk shooter was indeed shacked up with a transsexual, but YMMV on how trustworthy that tidbit is.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
3hr ago
Shacked up with a transsexual, wrote a bunch of leftist memes, and finally shot a right-wing public figure.
Sure, he happened to be signed up with the other party. But his actual active actions speak a much clearer language than that bit of buerocratic neglect (i.e., inaction, which comes easy).
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
11hr ago
Nepali zoomer revolution, burning down parliament and beating ministers, Discord election
Please tell us more.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
1d ago
Please don't try to drive off the few counter-contrarians we have left here.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
1d ago
Just spitballing here, but might it be that Kirk was simply a much softer target and more available to the shooter than Fuentes?
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
1d ago
Thus, dystopia.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
1d ago
This is the whole "people power" thing. When a leftist pulls their phone, what they're really doing is pulling a gun by proxy, which is why they think they can face down actual guns when they do it (warning: murder footage, but there's no other way to get this point across). The guns actually firing- their social power in the situation being ignored- is their nightmare scenario.
Funnily enough, the comments in the videos contain leftists (with Che Guevara pictures) claiming that what happened was justice being done because the victims called the shooter a queer, which is a "homophobic slur".
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
2d ago
I think I'm culturally Middle class but economically working class.
The former because of my family background, which is solidly middle-class by most definitions I've ever heard. The latter because I don't own anything but a car and I live paycheck to paycheck with no prospects of improvement and too many responsibilities to quit.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
2d ago
I wouldn't know. Don't we have any Russians here who might answer?
But I reckon that Russian anti-nazism is different. Firstly because their opposition to Nazism is driven by a more explicit ideological difference, and secondly because they had to fight for their lives in an existential conflict against the Nazis that was even more horrible than the War in the West.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
2d ago
Been putting in extra work at work, which completely ate up my free time during the week days, and on the weekend I social calls. No progress this time.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
2d ago
I wish.
I'm...lower middle class? Honestly I'm not sure how the classifications go, exactly. I'd call myself "working class" in light of my actual circumstances, if that didn't have historical baggage. I'd like to identify as middle class, but I clearly don't fit in economically on account of my complete lack of property.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
2d ago
Well, fine, it's not DevOps then.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
2d ago
I have no idea what it would even mean for such a tattoo to "not work".
Neither do I. What is the tattoo meant to do for you?
Kinda, yeah? I mean, my first line of advice would still be "just live with it", but OTOH if it works, it works.
Tattoos don't work.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
2d ago
Because for the purpose of the exercise, you were meant to imagine yourself a leftist.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
2d ago
So why exactly did the Israelis support this policy?
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
2d ago
No, in this case I didn't mean Hackerman who sleeps in the server room and has admin rights on the entire company's software ecosystem.
Rather, Sybil and Jennifer who are responsible for incident handling, test schedule deconflicting and update management for a limited vertical and horizontal section of the stack.
Fair criticism. You're right. American proapganda was not the driver of European anti-German sentiments, I conflated things there.
American propaganda did however drive American Anti-German sentiments (duh), which influenced American policy.
I edited the post above accordingly.
Do you have any sources I can read on this boomerang effect of American propaganda?
Nope. Just half a lifetime of first-hand experience and German general education. Just trust me Bruder.
What were the "modes of operation and expression" and whatnot that American propaganda imposed on postwar Germany?
Here's the tip of the iceberg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denazification
My grandpa's joke about Denazification was that it was like like potato harvest - pull out the big ones and leave the rest.
But denazification was officially and ostensibly only about punishing and removing from positions of power or influence in post-war Germany the most prominent nazi funcitonaries. Things went further than that. I blame the allies for the original impulse, the leftists of back then for taking it and running with it, and the good people of Germany for taking it all at face value, doing as their told, and making denazification-in-all-things the de-facto civil religion of Germany. But I'm getting ahead of myself.
In the immediate post-war years, Germans were dazed and confused. Teachers didn't know what they were still allowed to teach. Public officials tried to keep a low profile. The only thing that was clear, and which allied propaganda now becoming official policy codified, was that the nazis had been evil, and that good Germans must wholeheartedly reject nazism. Which they did, and then mostly washed their hands of history, and concentrated on the simple work of rebuilding normal life. The federal republic of Germany was created in 1949, as a state without even an army until 1955. For the Allies, an apolitical Germany with an army was what they needed as a bulwark against the rising threat of communism. And at first young Germans seemed to grow up with no higher ideals at that time other than "reject nazism". But that's a negative without a positive, a void that communist propaganda eagerly filled. And so, while the allies barred the way for any expression of right-wing sentiment or nationalism in Germany and would have left it at that, German youths egged on by leftist agitation had an ideological void to fill and picked up what they could. Which was a proto-globalist worldview that experimented with rejecting national culture and identity in favor of something in between https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%B6lkerverst%C3%A4ndigung ("Understanding between peoples". German, sorry) and more general cosmopolitanism.
And so we get to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_German_student_movement in 1968. And then we get to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Autumn in 1977.
And I'm rambling. To cut to a tl;dr: American propaganda during the wars created a general anti-German sentiment among Europeans Edit: American propaganda was part of the general promotion of anti-German sentiments among Westerners, Allied policy de-politicized German society from the top down AND set anti-nazism as the default position and absolute boundary of all political thought, and Germans growing up in the post-war years adopted the anti-Germanism and the anti-nazism and filled the remaining political void with the then-ascendant communism. Following generations synthesized that into modern German leftism.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
3d ago
FWIW, I agree. I just want to highlight the degree to which the prerequisite dehumanization has already happened, and has happened over a long time, and happened very thoroughly, and is supported by media and public institutions and prevailing narratives that are shared and promoted even by non-leftists.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
3d ago
Here is where I suppose the American public at large has not yet noticed the extent to which things have come full circle.
WW1 (yes) and WW2 propaganda clarified that resistance to and the ultimate defeat of the Nazis was a moral imperative. Post-war Germany adopted this, at the Allies' command, and went full hog - youths were indeed taught that nazism was the ultimate evil, and that even the most minute form of it was a germ from which the Third Reich could rise again. And with no narrative to actually counter this, since any opinions to the contrary were banned either in law or in practice, this view grew ever more extreme over the generations, and ever more wide-spread, and could take uncontested hold of many public institutions. You may have heard of the Frankfurt School and the philosophical underpinnings of modern American leftism coming from Germany. But please understand - the practice of modern leftism, its modes of operation and expression, its lines of thinking and of everyday argumentation, its symbols and axioms, have also been grown here, in our youth clubs and universities and cultural centers. And then, though I know not how exactly, they made their way back across to America. It's no coincidence that you now have "Antifa".
What you have now is a synthesis of all this; American propaganda filtered through generations of German self-hatred and nationally enforced anti-nazism, and all the weight of WW2 and the Holocaust behind it. And the spearpoint of it is this - that it is better to burn down the entire country and everyone in it than to permit even the smallest expression of nazism, than to risk a repeat of the greatest atrocity that ever was.
You don't need any more strong evidence to prove that violence is justified to stop nazis, because there's the 20th century to prove it. Are you ignorant of history to deny it? Do you secretly hate the jews to downplay the unique horror of the holocaust? Are you just unworried because you aren't a minority? Are you uneducated, or unintelligent, not to see what all good people agree is the case? Such is the dominant discourse in Germany, as imposed by the victors of WW2, and you're getting a taste of it now.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
3d ago
Society seems to have become better to live in as we built structures and methods to temper this perfectly natural predilection to cheer on the suffering of people we dislike, but the progressive left seems to disagree, and the rest of the left seems too cowed to prevent them from having their way.
I disagree on that specific point. The left does not promote cheering on the suffering of disliked people. The left promotes cheering on the suffering of evil monsters that all actual people agree must be destroyed. Please keep in mind that they're nazis! They've been dehumanized since the 1930s (actually since the 1910s if you ask me, but that'll take more explaining), and everyone agrees that this is a good thing! American institutions public and private, governments of no matter which party, all American cultural goods, all media, agree and generations of Americans of all stripes have been born, have lived and have died knowing that the nazi is no longer human and killing him is a service to mankind!
That the modern left somewhat further weaponized this license to kill by expanding the category of nazi to include right-wingers that are at most directionally nazis is a shift so subtle that it barely even classifies as sleigh of hand. "Wahret den Anfängen", we Germans were told. "Prevent the beginnings", or "Nip it in the bud". This goes hand-in-hand with "Never Again". Identifying that those beginnings, this budding of fascism, starts not with the literal reincarnation of Adolf Hitler himself but with the promotion of directionally fascist views is, IMO, perfectly legitimate. And with that step taken, you rapidly go through all the others until it's not just OK but actually morally required to kill people like Charlie Kirk and Donald Trump. If anything, it's somewhat embarassing that you have to play dumb with expressions like "punching nazis". Obviously the correct thing to do is to kill them. It's what good Americans have always done.
And nazis aren't people. They're not even human. A century of propaganda to that purpose should have made it evidently obvious. Nazis occupy the moral compass' pole of ultimate and unmitigated evil. They cannot be tolerated, cannot be humanized, and cannot be permitted to exist, lest real people actually suffer.
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
3d ago
I did it, once upon a time
Emigrate, or publicly announce intention to emigrate?
Which is perhaps not ideal and not high quality, but even shoddy disagreement seems like a necessary component for the Motte to function as intended.
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