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3mo ago
The Israelis don’t make this mistake, there aren’t any Palestinian land acknowledgements in the West Bank. They make good use of language and ritual, as did the Australians of old. In the 19th century, Australian newspapers would report on how colonists would eagerly ‘disperse’ or ‘duly and efficiently pound’ aboriginals. The Native Police would ‘give them a dressing down’, a ‘thumping’ or ‘a shaking up’.
huh, I would reverse that. Seems to me, 200 years from now, Israeli Jews are going to have to "[spend] billions, hundreds of billions, trillions paying subsidies, apologising to and working for low-performers who aren’t going to get their act together anytime soon and certainly aren’t going to be grateful for it."
PS: I was going to go a tangent about "all men are created equal" but then Australia is the only common law country with neither a constitutional nor federal legislative bill of rights to protect its citizens
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3mo ago
With regards to examining and addressing issues with men and boy in Western societies, I like to follow Richard Reeves. You can either watch the Big Think video or this interview he had with Ezra Klein
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3mo ago
Hey man, echoing what @Amadan says. I am not convinced by the HBD stuff though, unlike him. But I am also open to just come to this "public square" to listen in and see what it's about. I suppose the way that I stayed here so far was that I treat my presence here like Louis Theroux on an investigative trip. Only recently did I take a more proactive approach of actually contributing or starting conversations. I would encourage you to fight! fight on! And yes, it means in certain places and at certain moments, we fight by the rules the arena setup and rewards us for. Thankfully I trust in the mods of this arena, and also I guess a healthy boundary between knowing that "these people who I disagree with is out there" and "these people who I disagree with is harmful and dangerous to me imminently". This is after all just one corner in the vast internet, and the true public real life world out there has plenty spaces for me to fight, and not just by writing.
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3mo ago
btw, where do you get military morale or keep an ear on the ground? I don't quite trust the various military subreddits.
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3mo ago
he didn't bother to talk to people who understood governing
which everyone who understands the budget knows can't work because the math doesn't math.
Sounds like Musk didn't apply engineering first principles to his DOGE initiative. And as you pointed out, it takes time for a generally smart person to become an expert in the field, but I would like to point out that it all starts with first principles and that becoming a domain expert is always by applying first principles to their given interests.
Personally, my explanation for why Musk deviated from his successful formula is that Musk was ideologically captured, had increased drug use, and couldn't keep a cool head.
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3mo ago
What would you have any elite class in society do? Withdraw to the margins of society and live in their own gated communities, leaving the bulk of people to fend for themselves?
Really get to know the "local interests and norms of the broader population". Learn from them and align your and the public interests, or even do the hard work of persuasion and cajoling the public to follow you. I admit this is what Karp is doing and I at least respect him for wading into the fight. But to say "stop criticizing me" is just pathetic
I really don’t mind such a class of people, provided they’re actively working in my interests.
Exactly, I'm not sure if Karp's best interest is with mine. At the very least, it's certainly making me feel reactance to what he's proposing.
Opening up the discussion on Palantir's CEO 22 points manifesto (original twitter link) which is an excerpt for his new book The Technological Republic.
First impulses when reading through the list, I see that it's melding nationalism and civic responsibility with some kind of tech-elite-ism (?) and culture war critiques.
Anyways, here is what I got from it after thinking about it more and talking with various AI (ChatGPT, Gemini, DeepSeek, Qwen):
- Stop criticizing the elites that actually do something (go away we know what's good for you)
- the grunts should share more of the burden (you're not doing your part)
- Argues for inclusion, but implies that there should be a defined/national culture for inclusion and assimilate into (this "minority" thought is good, that "minority" thought is bad)(btw, I will tell you which one is good or bad)
- Civic religion for everyone! (and remember to be nice to your tech priests)
- You all are fat and weak because of all this peace stuff (Although I benefitted, you are going the wrong way btw)
I think I am influenced because I am currently reading through Seeing Like a State, but I get the feeling that Alex Karp believes he is a leader in a vanguard of tech elites that knows what's best (even if many are distracted from the real issues right now) and everyone should listen and just follow this vanguard. Oh and throw in some "woe is me, only I can save the republic, they just don't understand me, so read my book because then you will".
I think this is an interesting view into the CEO of one of the most important companies. My impression of the man has decreased, and increasing my concern for the kind of leaders and elites that is brewing up within American society.
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3mo ago
Pretty much, there's a reason why blindfold chess is reserved for exhibition because it's to show how good the chess master is.
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3mo ago
The value of hard work is that it allows the less capable to attain, by rote, some of the diligence and understanding that comes naturally to the more capable. It is a virtue when it allows one to be useful rather than not.
Like you, I agree that on the spectrum of effort from sloth to inhumane, there is a sweet spot of maximal benefit to both the individual and society. Even in my original comment, I said East Asian minimum for top of class is 1500. Searching it up, to land in 1500 for SAT that's about 5-7 questions wrong in a 98 questions test, that's a range of 93% to 95% correct (assuming questions are equal in score). That's not asking for perfection, that's an A- to an A in most classes.
When selected for in highly competitive spheres that ought to require talent and creativity, it burns billions of man-hours on rat racing against each other and accomplishing little other than letting employers demand higher credentials for the same level of actual competence.
I remember one of the members of this forum has the tag "you're still a rat even if you win the rat race. but you'll also still be a winner." Anyways, I think your true distaste is in the "letting employers demand higher credentials for the same level of actual competence.". This is my response: any marker, any status symbol, any award, any slightly higher higher privilege, can become a "credential". And combined with micro-level priorities and incentives of thousands, millions, billions, and some day, trillions of being, there will be many that will compete and try even a little more than the next. That doesn't have to be you, you can find meaning in not doing that, or you can try to change the system so the incentives, signals, and results are better aligned, but there will always be "billions of man hours rat racing against each other". The problem is that we will only have the relatively microscopic view from our perspective, and what we think is wasteful effort of others are just them making the most rational and rewarding decision from their perspective.
highly competitive spheres that ought to require talent and creativity
I wanted to draw this particular bit out because it poked at me, my response I will borrow from someone else: "Talent is something you make bloom, instinct is something you polish."
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3mo ago
It's a face-saving culture and a police state. Revealed preferences speak louder.
Eyeing these charts, China has lost on average 300,000 per year since 2000, and the USA has gained 1.2 million. That's roughly 7.5 million leaving China, and 30 million people entering the US.
You're speaking to the same crowd here. Again, I am an immigrant, I'm not denying that USA is a more attractive destination than China for me personally. I am on this US-centric forum after all and relishing in American way of living and American values. I'm just saying that Chinese people's yearning for America has reduced.
About Gaokao and SAT questions? That naturally keeps you up at night? Are you sure? Is it really just the curiosity which the Chinese are internationally renowned for that drives their excessive studying?
I've personally remembered really like learning the new words and vocab for the SAT. Some of the text in the reading questions was actually quite interesting on their own if I didn't have to answer the questions too. I do think my natural curiosity made it easier to do the grind. I think you're asking me if I would seek out SAT tests then I agree I don't. I think finally we get to what you meant (which I missed) which is that you "dislike too much studying for test taking purposes". I was arguing against "dislike too much studying".
Ah, but studying what? Does the United States really benefit when a Chinese immigrant spends 800 hours studying for the SAT starting in junior high, when the American norm is <8 hours of studying for the SAT?
Yes. Does America wants the exceptional or not? America does not benefit from a Chinese student spending 800 hours studying the SAT, but America certainly benefits from a Chinese immigrant who spent 800 hours studying the SAT. Studying extremely extremely hard is not mutually exclusive to being creative. The value of hard work is pretty much common sense.
Does the United States really benefit when Chinese immigrants become supercilious towards their host, proclaiming that „Americans have it too easy and need to study harder” ?
If you look at my original comment ("My first immediate thought is Americans live on easy mode. For East Asians, top of graduating class would mean minimum 1500.") or the subsequent comments, I did not ascribe good or bad value to "Americans live it on easy mode", you projected that yourself.
As for whether I think Americans should study more, yes, I do. Not to the excessive level of your strawman example, but I do think Americans should take heed of their own advice
nobody likes China, not even the Chinese.
This is categorically false, go ask a random Chinese person in China whether they like China.
They flee from China at a rate much higher than people flee to China.
Not by this chart, I see that there are 134 countries with higher net migration than China (so more going out than going in), and 96 countries with higher net migration than China (so more going in than going out). China has a net migration rate of -0.1/1000, which I understand as means for every 10k people, one person leaves (or 2 person emigrated from china and 1 person immigrated to China). Population growth essentially papered over the differences easily for Chinese population is certainly still increasing and not decreasing.
Studying too much is selfish and doesn't benefit society. It's bad behavior. It should not be celebrated.
I don't think you're the first one on this forum that has expressed this viewpoint. I am against it. I like studying. I am naturally curious. It was lucky of me that what I enjoy also align with what my originating background valued. Yes we have cultures and civilizations and people who enjoy and put on a pedestal studying. I think society has benefited from me "studying too much" and from others "studying too much". I'm reminded of this quote from The West Wing: "It's not that you don't like guns, you just don't like people who like guns" and I'm reminded of you.
edit1: now that I wrote it out I kinda understand the chicken egg problem in that quote lol.
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3mo ago
I just reviewed my comments. I should have said "Not sure if Chinese prefer migrating to America is all true these days". Look, I don't disagree with you. I am an immigrant to the US myself and certainly think it's a better place for me and that the place would be better with me in it. And about the dynamics of immigration, China has never been welcoming and has a strong cultural and social identity on what it means to be Chinese, not to mention the process sucks even harder than the US in some ways. If one looks at immigration by percentage of population, China stands out in both how powerful/rich it is compared to its immigration population. But the sentiment is changing and that's what I meant by pointing out that "Not sure if that's true these days". We've all read the many posts about Deepseek and Chinese tech companies, they are certainly full of talents and people who isn't really leaving anymore. Would they if they could? maybe. Target, desire, opportunity, the triangle of crime is a great way to explain how people make choices anyway. Opportunities for foreigners in China since the CPC came to power has remained few relatively even if they have the target and desire, but opportunities and desire for Chinese nationals to stay have increased.
But what has that gotten East Asians? It would seem they prefer to move to the United States, and Americans do not prefer to move to China. Perhaps over-studying is a form of defection against society, and it being predominant lowers creative output, leading to a worse economy than a counterfactual society
I think it can still shake out in surprising ways. China led in just three of 64 technologies in 2003–20074 but is now the lead country in 57 of 64 technologies in 2019–2023, increasing its lead from our rankings last year (2018–2022), where it was leading in 52 technologies.. I certainly read a ton of chinese webnovels and to me the Chinese authors are very very creative. The weight of Chinese population requires both US + Europe combined to counterbalance. Xi is iron-fisted, but Chinese people as a whole are prosperous and growing.
I am most worried for China about the demographic collapse, the gender gap. I thought China actually handled the real estate bubble well. I am of the belief that American people are still angry that no one really got punished for the 2008 crisis (that they got chumped) and that anger animates all the elections since. I don't like China's lack of freedoms, China homogeneous view of society, etc. but I don't discount that for much of its population that the balance is fine.
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3mo ago
There is (or more like was) a big expat community in China, I'm sure if they could they would have loved to take roots there. China just doesn't allow much immigration if at all. The supply just isn't there even if there is demand.
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3mo ago
overlap, you're at the top of the American/West range while I was pointing out the bottom of the East Asian range.
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3mo ago
It would seem they prefer to move to the United States, and Americans do not prefer to move to China.
Not sure if that's true these days. We need to search up let's say where the top 10k gaokao testers go over the years. I believe the increased scrutiny ("Are you a chinese spy?") and increasingly hostile culture against China lead to many Chinese deciding to go back to their country. I know in Vietnam that it was a minor controversy where all the winners of a nationally televised academic contest all became Australian nationals (the winning prize is a full ride scholarship to an Australian university)
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3mo ago
top of his class, eagle scout, 1400+ on his SATs as a junior, the whole shebang.
My first immediate thought is Americans live on easy mode. For East Asians, top of graduating class would mean minimum 1500.
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3mo ago
I came from a country where people are afraid of writing too much in private chat and would rather call you up to talk. The plurality of opinions here in America is frikin amazing in comparison. People can go to whatever public square they like here. Twitter, bluesky, mastodon, reddit, random forums, random forums that had to migrate and move to their own sites. Good luck making another social media site in my country without getting a visit from the police. We obviously have very different viewpoints on this. "I didn't see the light until I was already a man". You are very vigilant of any erosion of rights, or maybe disappointed at the gap between theory and reality. Just because the American people (the elites or the masses) fail to live up to American values does not twist American values nor detract from the striving to have and keep those values. What I see is that an American can go into the streets holding a sign, or tweet it out, or make a website, or rambling posts on Facebook, on most things and won't get beaten or put away in unmarked vans, and that is the kind of freedoms I would congratulate America for.
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3mo ago
In 1969, Dennis was de facto overruled by Brandenburg v. Ohio.
Took 18 years, but that's a short time compared to the long history of a country.
I suspect that speech hasn't been prosecuted more in the US because children are taught this first, then exceptions later, so they're generally biased against exceptions.
Yes, makes sense, the freedom is broad, so the exceptions are "the exceptions that prove the rule".
I listened to the recent Odd Lots episode with Gina Raimondo (Biden's Secretary of Commerce) and I would echo the sentiment here:
Most Americans when they hear AI, they get afraid, right? The vast, vast majority of Americans, "AI = anxiety", "I am going to lose my job". I get that, you know, people are scared. I think it would be a huge mistake to like retard our AI progress with overregulation. [We] just talked about China. I want to win the AI race, I want America to lead the AI world. And I think when we get to the fifth or sixth inning of this AI revolution, whatever you want to call it, I firmly believe there will be more jobs. I do. I think that there will be new industries, new companies, new products and services. I'm an optimist. [That being said,] I am pretty worried about getting from the first inning to that inning.
I am not dismissive of AI because it made me more productive but I also believe that software engineers will be around.
- As pointed out by @ChickenOverlord, Americans and their speech is so so so much free-er than other countries that sometimes I feel Americans don't get congratulated enough for it
- Yes, that's right, the question was about government overreach. Being able to does not mean it has to be easy. And yeah, the difficulty with getting your ideas and thoughts across to others is part of the friction of communication. I'm not sure what is being asked here, are you asking that political belief is to be a protected class and private companies should not use that as an excuse to offer/not-offer products and services? Either way, if people want their speech heard, nothing prevents them from taking over or recreate what they need.
- What Americans believe matters a whole lot. Trump's 2.0 victory is complete vindication of how what the median American thinks matters and led the country to what they want. Feels like every other presidency can be easily characterized as "newcomer with grassroots momentum that trounced the elite favorite".
- So the freedom of the people worked. An American, with the means and opportunities to make a change, made a change! He certainly didn't stay in South Africa to do that. He did what he did with Twitter because he had ideological and philosophical values, very American ones if I might add, that drove his actions.
The US? say what you will about America, the first amendment is amazing. I suppose it depends on what you mean by "the ruling party".
Edit1: There has been certain attempts, like the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798, but overall the first amendment has been a strong stalwart against government overreach.
Laws are a reflection of opinion and facts on the ground. I've stood corrected anyways that Australia has a patchwork in which there is some form of "all men are created equal" and therefore if the "conquerors" don't continuously and incessantly make it clear they are to always stomp on the heads of the "conquered", and if violence is not the answer, then narratives and political power is what's left. I think it's one of, or combination of, the following for me:
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