site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 27, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

11
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

You would hardly be the first or last person to make that observation on the discrepancy between pure demographics and advertising, be it here on the Motte or elsewhere. That's not the same thing as this being false, it's obviously true for anyone who has eyes, but it's been debated ad-nauseum here.

Thankfully my diligent use of ad-block prevents such visual and auditory pollution from entering my sensoria, most of the time. That's ads themselves, regardless of content. May the day come soon when AR filters get rid of them from my perception of non-digital reality.

Thankfully my diligent use of ad-block prevents such visual and auditory pollution from entering my sensoria, most of the time.

It's not just ads though, but also stock images, staged photographs for college admission pamphlets, product pictures on Amazon, etc. (you can always quickly identify cheap Chinese imports on Amazon: they're the only ones with product pictures showing white people using the product).

I'm sure you can probably find white people in ads for euthanasia in Canada, at least.

It's increasingly difficult to find any refuge from the daily barrage of reminders that your society is signaling it hates you and is excited for you and your kind to die off.

Huh. The first few stock images that come to mind are a mixed bag. Harold, old white guy. “Why can’t I hold all these limes,” young black guy. “Distracted boyfriend,” three white people, one of whom is male. Maybe those are just dated?

Googling “stock photo” and looking at the first page of results gives a bunch of white people, mostly solo. The first black guy is playing a saxophone—does that count as stereotyping? There are a few Middle Eastern men, a couple Indians, and a single dog.

So I’m not really seeing it.

Huh. The first few stock images that come to mind are a mixed bag. Harold, old white guy. “Why can’t I hold all these limes,” young black guy. “Distracted boyfriend,” three white people, one of whom is male. Maybe those are just dated?

Googling “stock photo” and looking at the first page of results gives a bunch of white people, mostly solo. The first black guy is playing a saxophone—does that count as stereotyping? There are a few Middle Eastern men, a couple Indians, and a single dog.

So I’m not really seeing it.

If you had to search for it, perhaps it's because you're not paying attention when you come across it organically.

Let's try this. I'll go one-by-one to websites from Fortune 500 companies in descending order and see how white or nonwhite the photos of people on their home page are. Sound pretty objective? Alright, let's play.

  1. Walmart. Black guy.
  2. Amazon. Bunch of product images. I don't really feel like revealing to the world what Amazon wants me to buy again.
  3. ExxonMobile. First guy is poorly lit but the face look kind of black to me when zooming in. Either way, the next person is a black woman too, followed by a white man.
  4. Apple. Black woman (on the watch).
  5. UnitedHealth Group. Asians.
  6. CVSHealth. Female is ambiguous, but the guy is nonwhite.
  7. Berkshire Hathaway. No photos of people.
  8. Alphabet. No photos of people.
  9. McKesson. Black woman.
  10. Chevron. White woman.
  11. Cencora. White woman. Nonwhites are nonetheless 3 out of 5 of the people whose races are visible on the home page.
  12. Costco. Two black people.
  13. Microsoft. Black person. 4 out of 5 of those with visible faces on the home page are nonwhite.
  14. Cardinal Health. Ambiguous, but I'd say multiracial.
  15. Cigna. A white male!
  16. Marathon Petroleum. 2 out of 3 white.
  17. Phillips 66. 2 out of 3 nonwhite.
  18. Valero Energy. Some of the people on the boat seem white, but they're distant and backs are turned. First face is black.
  19. Ford. White guy, followed by ambiguous woman and 4/6 of the remainder being black
  20. Home Depot. Two black guys, ambiguous woman, white guy
  21. General Motors. 8 out of 10 nonwhite
  22. Elevance Health. Black.
  23. JPMorgan Chase. Hispanic? A majority of the remainder of the homepage are nonwhites.
  24. Kroger. No photos, but 3 out of 4 of the cartoon characters are nonwhite.
  25. Centene. Black.
  26. Verizon. Nonwhite.
  27. Walgreens Boots Alliance. Well, not exactly a stock photo: they're announcing their new Chief Information Officer, a white guy. The next slide in the auto-rotating display is 5 nonwhite out of 7.
  28. Fannie Mae. Nonwhite.
  29. Comcast. 2 out of 3 nonwhite.
  30. AT&T. Asian, I think?

You get the idea.

The effect is so strong that at some point pictures of single young white urban men in advertising have become gay-coded. Usually if I see such an ad on my commute it's trying to sell me PrEP.