The_Nybbler
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User ID: 174
The_Nybbler
Does not have a yacht
12hr ago
Or do you have some weird twisted argument that literally any epsilon>0 of regulation instantly grinds innovation to a halt?
It never stays epsilon.
Architecture, for instance. Do you know what architects do nowadays? It isn't really to design buildings. It's to figure out a way for any given space to satisfy fire regs and ADA regs at the same time, while still being usable. If there's anything left over for creativity, it's taken by energy efficiency rules.
Aircraft I mentioned in another post. No flying cars, no supersonic jets, and the big aircraft manufacturers aren't even planning new designs, just variants on old ones.
The_Nybbler
Does not have a yacht
12hr ago
What do you think is "the way we talk about flying cars today"?
The idea that we'll ever have them is an utter joke, and has been since before Avery Brooks made a meme of it. And that's true, it is an utter joke. But at one time people thought we would have flying cars. The ever-increasing regulation on anything airspace-related has made it so we don't have flying cars, we won't have flying cars, fewer people have their own aircraft, and even flying toy airplanes is mostly illegal.
There are of course substantial technical barriers to flying cars, but almost no one is even interested in trying to overcome them because the regulatory barriers to marketing them and getting the general public to be allowed to fly them are obviously insurmountable. No one goes into the aircraft industry unless they want to live, sleep, and breathe FAA regulations; nobody's designing better airplanes, the whole object of the business is to make more cost-effective (cheaper or more fuel-efficient) airplanes while still satisfying the myriad FAA regs. Which mostly means finding some way of claiming the new airplane is a variant of an old one, otherwise the regulatory cost of certifying the new airframe AND getting pilots certified on it is too high.
If the regulators get their way, we'll have the same thing in household automation. We'll still be doing the dishes the same way (only with less and less effective dishwashers, since it's an obsession of the US government to do dishes without water), laundry (same thing about effectiveness) and cooking too. Nothing that could be automated will be (except toys like the Roomba)
The_Nybbler
Does not have a yacht
15hr ago
The game of insisting on some very tangible prediction for a perturbation to a complex system, and then if no such prediction is forthcoming insisting the person making less tangible claims is wrong is annoying and only works on Yudkowskiites. I'll make a less tangible claim, though: If regulation gets a foothold and continues to increase, in 20 years we'll be talking about the promise of automation of household tasks the way we talk about flying cars today.
The_Nybbler
Does not have a yacht
15hr ago
Maybe their little subculture will change. It is a Culture War, after all.
You won't change it without breaking it such that it can't produce the new stuff any more.
...wait, so those people aren't building them? Who is building them? People who aren't the artists and don't find following the regulation to be boring? Then we don't actually have any problem at all! I'm not sure what you've been complaining about this whole time.
"Technokings" is not a reasonable description of the people building them. The people building them exist, and are not people with the regulated-industry mindset, where there are a ton of boxes to be checked and rechecked every time something is built or a change is made.
But you know all this; you're unable or unwilling to truly conceal your glee at keeping the people (such as myself) that you hold in such disdain being stomped on by the English jackboot.
The_Nybbler
Does not have a yacht
15hr ago
The difference is that it's easy to people who don't have a particular psychology or culture.
So you say. But those people can't do it, because they aren't the people building the devices. The people being required to do it are the people you (gleefully) admit it is painful for.
But hey, I think we're making progress. The reason why IoT devices have been an absolute security shitshow for years is just because a small culture of powerful technokings think that it's too boring for them to fix the obvious problems that everyone knows are obvious problems and which are objectively easy and simple to fix. We may have reached agreement!
I do not agree. The reason IoT devices have been an absolute security shitshow for years is no one except you and some European regulators actually gives a shit. There are no technokings building them, and nobody's going to pay a red cent more for an internet-connected light bulb that's more secure than some other internet-connected light bulb.
The_Nybbler
Does not have a yacht
16hr ago
Compliance is a huge industry.
Weird. I hear about that from my friends in literally every other industry ever. They still seem capable of operating.
Sure, and Harrison Bergeron could walk with a junkyard's worth of scrap metal stuck to him. It's a handicap, not necessarily a fatal one (though sometimes it is).
The_Nybbler
Does not have a yacht
16hr ago
It can be easy and simple to follow, but incredibly grating to the personality of "artists". They don't like coloring inside the lines, even if it's easy and simple to follow.
If it's that grating, it's not easy even if it is simple. The word for such a thing is common: "tedious".
The_Nybbler
Does not have a yacht
16hr ago
Your original post expresses considerable contempt for "tech folks" and demonstrates absolute joy for us having regulation "dropped" on us "in a much stronger way that you really won't like." This really doesn't fit with an idea that you think the regulations will be anything like easy or simple to follow -- rather, you actually think they will be difficult and painful to follow and are joyfully anticipating the pain it will cause.
Yeah, regulation sucks. It's terrible that in the "real" engineering professions, you need a minimum 10 years of experience before you're allowed to do anything more than turn the crank on well-tested models to determine if some very slight variation of an existing thing meets all the requirements, and then fill in all the boxes on the paperwork to maintain traceability. Doing that has high costs; applying those costs to the software industry as a whole will cause it to stagnate.
The_Nybbler
Does not have a yacht
17hr ago
If it's really so easy there won't be any problems. But I'm pretty sure, given the absolute glee expressed in your original post, you know it isn't.
The_Nybbler
Does not have a yacht
17hr ago
My read is that they literally just need to fill in that table that I mentioned on page 32. That's not a lot of reams.
I don't think the "detail" required is going to fit in that table. So it's going to be a reference to some much longer document which explains each item, in language understandable to regulators. And then all this will have to be reviewed by a lawyer specializing in UK regulations. And every time a change is made to the device, the document will have to be audited to ensure there's still compliance.
Of course just this one document isn't going to do much, aside from make new IoT devices less available in the UK and other countries adopting it as mandatory. The more regulation in more countries, the more the works get gummed up.
The_Nybbler
Does not have a yacht
17hr ago
The cost of compliance -- which is to say, the reams of paperwork and signoffs necessary -- will make this impractical for startups. The large companies making this stuff will do it -- eventually, with the UK getting delayed releases. The Chinese knockoffs will continue to be sold unlawfully, and a lot of new stuff just won't appear in the UK at all.
Justifications for this view have shifted, but I've always felt they've had a flavor of, "We can't be regulated! We're
autistsartists! We make unique snowflake masterpieces! We have to move fast and break stuff! If we're ever held accountable for breaking anything, even for the most egregious of practices, then the entire economy will grind to a halt!"
Sneer all you want (I guess you're a Real Engineer), but I think a big reason bits have continued to grow while everything else has stagnated is the regulators haven't caught up with the bits yet.
The_Nybbler
Does not have a yacht
20hr ago
To understand why "antisemitic" is an issue, you first have to understand that whether a protest is acceptable has little to do with the particular tactics of the protestors. Within a very broad range, protests for acceptable causes are acceptable even if they are disruptive or out-and-out violent, while protests for unacceptable causes are unacceptable if the slightest excuse can be ginned up. The argument over "antisemitism" is an argument over whether these protests are in the first class or the second.
The_Nybbler
Does not have a yacht
22hr ago
No. It implies that any girl rated higher on the list might receive consideration for rape by someone.
(But in reality, it's just used because "fuck" has lost all its sting, so "unfuckable" is no longer edgy enough)
The_Nybbler
Does not have a yacht
23hr ago
It does. Force works for everything, if you can apply enough force. Treat someone who makes a joke as if they're a violent criminal, and they will think making jokes makes you a violent criminal. Brainwashing works.
The_Nybbler
Does not have a yacht
1d ago
The fact that people don't realize those are two sides of the same coin is another black pill.
The_Nybbler
Does not have a yacht
1d ago
They still vote for the Democrats. And will continue to, because voting Republican (to a large and increasing extent) Just Isn't Done.
The_Nybbler
Does not have a yacht
1d ago
Things can't correlate with the same thing both positively and negatively.
The_Nybbler
Does not have a yacht
1d ago
Similar informal (and illegal) daycare setups also exist.
The_Nybbler
Does not have a yacht
1d ago
The Modern Orthodox skew strongly Democratic, though not as much as other non-Haredi Jews.
The_Nybbler
Does not have a yacht
2d ago
Maybe both.
The_Nybbler
Does not have a yacht
2d ago
No, the Palestinians would not only continue to fight among themselves but also fight with their neighbors.
The_Nybbler
Does not have a yacht
2d ago
Being able to be similar to finely ground chicken breast sauteed in oil is not getting up to the level of being similar to average store-bought meat. Maybe average high school cafeteria meat.
The_Nybbler
Does not have a yacht
2d ago
Yeah. Google, several times, tried to recruit heavily from HBCUs and when that didn't work tried to improve the educational program (the CS program, anyway) at HBCUs so it would work. There was resistance from some of the people at the HBCUs of course, but I doubt that was the only problem. The top HBCUs just have a lower quality of student (e.g. as measured by standardized test scores) than median state flagships.
The_Nybbler
Does not have a yacht
2d ago
What do you mean "you can't, though"?
I mean you cannot, "right now", obtain lab grown meat of the quality you describe for any price.
I am really quite confident that I could get lab-grown meat that passed a blind test for something like tens of thousands of dollars per pound if I for whatever reason really wanted to.
I do not believe you could, and in any case you cannot do it "right now".
The option is not on the table. It's Trump or 4 more years of Biden. At this time the implicit message associated all this criticism of Trump for not being successful enough (much of which is true) is that you might as well vote for Biden and wait for the Perfect Conservative to come along; it's not going to happen.
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