This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Modern AI tools have been compared to magic oracles, we ask it a question and it synthesizes vast amounts of information to give us an answer.
What this regulation will achieve isn't restricting the AI from having a disparate impact, it is restricting the AI from synthesizing that information and then telling the truth. Certain categories of question are impossible to ask, or impossible to get a correct answer about, without risking disparate impact.
Consider: take /r/rateme and turn it into a prediction algorithm. Go through the thousands upon thousands of posts and figure out how to spit out an approximation of how Reddit would rate your pictures, without posting your pictures to Reddit. Useful tool, now instead of embarrassing myself asking a bunch of strangers to rate my pictures, I can just do a couple clicks on an online tool and it will spit out what Reddit would have told me anyway. Advances for privacy! I can run the test iteratively, and use different pictures for an online dating profile, or even different haircuts or physique choices edited in, based on the output, and figure out how to make myself more attractive.
But, such an algo would either instantly cross the line of acceptability, or it would need to be dishonest. Because it can't give black people lower ratings, it can't give Asian women higher ratings and Asian men lower ratings, it can't give trans people lower ratings. It's not even clear, based on the angles used to wedge queers into civil rights law intended to protect women, that it can ding effeminate men or butch women. It can't ding you for wearing a yarmulke, even though I can guarantee you that wearing a yarmulke will lower your dating odds. It would be impossible to create such an oracle and not have a disparate impact. So, we've created a tool to grow our knowledge, but that field is permanently restricted, some areas of knowledge must remain unknowable under Colorado law.
You’ve lost me.
I’m not arguing for this law. I’m arguing that disparate impact is useful, even necessary, to achieve goals about disparate treatment. Given that I find the latter legitimate, I’m willing to give more slack to the former.
Let’s say an unsavory developer made your hypothetical product with one change. Like Golden Gate Claude, it tries to work one topic into its answers, except instead of a bridge, it’s Puerto Ricans. This tool just hates ‘em. Any time real Reddit would have come up with a sick burn, it’s now directed at this one nationality. It never has anything good to say about them, and tries its best to convince users to hate and fear (looking like) them. Textbook disparate treatment, right?
Now prove it. How are you going to show that this oracle is a huge racist? Examples? Good luck. Statistical comparison to real Reddit? Thin ice. You’re left with “I know it when I see it,” which is a pretty rough standard for lawsuits.
Of course, the point is moot, because an edgy fashion AI isn’t doing any direct harm. It’s not illegal in the same way as denying a loan or a promotion. But that’s true of your hypothetical, too. Neither of them makes a “consequential decision,” so neither must remain unknowable under this law.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link