This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
If you Google "cheating scandal" right now, Google can't figure out which story you want. There's like six different things you could be looking for.
Pro Poker Rocked By Alleged Cheating Scandal Where Winner Repaid $269K To Loser
Chess Investigation Finds That U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times
Fishermen nearly won a tournament. Then weights were found in the fish.
Nia Long’s Fiance Ime Udoka Suspended From the Boston Celtics Amid Cheating Scandal
The Try Guys Release YouTube Video Laying Out Exact Timeline of Ned Fulmer Cheating Scandal
Adam Levine Returns to the Stage After Cheating Scandal With Support From Wife Behati Prinsloo
First of all, obviously these are two different kinds of cheating. The first three are people gaining unfair advantage in competitions and the latter are men having sex with women other than their wives. But I think it's defensible to discuss these together. After all, there's a reason we use the same word for both behaviors. Both are a major ethical breach where one person gains an unfair advantage at something by breaching an agreement.
(If we broaden the scope to "ethics-related controversy" we can throw in the recent chaos on Twitch over gambling and an alleged sexual assault coverup to this list.)
Is it schizophrenic to suggest that maybe it isn't a coincidence that this is happening at the same time? It kind of sounds insane, obviously it's a coincidence. But I don't know, sometimes it just feels like there's something "in the water" culturally and there are suddenly similar things happening in many places at once. An example of this is how sexual harassment/assault/etc. accusations tend to come in waves against many people all around the same time. Another example is just about everything that happened in June 2020. But in those cases I think the explanation is that a political movement that had been gaining steam for a long time is behind the phenomenon and the fact that the media is paying attention to it fuels more activism in a positive feedback loop. In this case there's no political movement and it's not clear how e.g. Magnus Carlsen withdrawing from a tournament over suspected would make it more likely for a fishing tournament organizer to decide to cut open some suspiciously heavy fish in the same sense that Harvey Weinstein getting canceled for rape makes more women share stories of sexual assault in Hollywood or one statue getting torn down leads to activists to try to tear more down.
Maybe this is actually normal, and there are always this many cheating scandals going on? If so, what were the ones from before? I heard of all of these stories, and I didn't hear about any from 2022 before September. Maybe this is a media phenomenon where cheating scandals are getting more attention now because there are no other major stories to take up the oxygen? If there were any cheating scandals coming out in, say, the month after Russia invaded Ukraine, or the beginning of the Covid pandemic, or the weeks before a presidential election, they probably wouldn't get much attention because there's just more important things to talk about. But none of that is happening now, so the media is free to focus on the Try Guys and it bubbles up to my awareness in a way it wouldn't otherwise. Maybe there's somehow a cultural energy towards exposing cheating, and for some reason people in many domains are turning their attention to it.
Or maybe I'm being crazy and it's a coincidence. I don't know. I'd be curious to read what other people think of all this.
You aren't crazy, so much as human. It cannot be helped.
The modern information environment is not normal. Nor was, for that matter, that of a century ago, or even that of someone urban two, three, four hundred years ago. We live in times where people are both more and less scrutinised than ever: more because technology has given us thoroughly better ways to record and track just-about anything; less, because personal ties are weaker than ever, and being anonymous in large parts of your life is something you can do nowadays. Insofar dying pieces of media ravenous for scraps of clicks and views find a bunch of cheating incidents, it is in LARGE part because these are things we can actually find today, as well as signal boost through aforementioned money-starved media machines. Think of it yourself: pro poker, pro chess, fishing contests - do you really care about them? Would you have heard of them if not for journalists meticulously going through everything?
All of this isn't a bad thing, not necessarily, but people are poorly suited to handling such an environment very well. Our monkey brain hasn't updated all that much since times much different from today's, and so having a mere half-dozen tidbits of news seems like it's REALLY REALLY MUCH. If you look into this all, do it with the thought that modern times are modern in mind; do not let what is a new environment drive you crazy. It isn't good for you, and you deserve better.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link