This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Can anybody explain the Polish perspective on the Ukraine war?
I went to Poland and it looked like what Western Europe should look like. The urban areas were clean and seemingly safe. Indeed the people living there are mostly European or Slavic.
My understanding is that most of the tsunami of African or Middle-Eastern immigrants of the 2000s would rather go to Western Europe or Scandinavia for better welfare or economic prospects.
Still, Poland used to get in trouble with the EU for not wanting to take in a certain amount of them.
Moreover, Poland has also faced reprimand from the same union for their policies toward non-heterosexuals.
Why did Poland even join the EU? Did they really need the money so badly at the time?
Now it seems that Poland is going toward ever more alignment with the EU and US.
Are they really so scared of Russia that they would drink the corn syrup and give up on whatever is left of their culture/sovereignty/demographics?
Is anybody of relevance in Poland even attempting to contradict the pro-Western turn?
You act like the West is a monolith of support for wokism, but there's no reason a country couldn't be a conservative, Western, capitalistic democracy where the voters simply reject the excesses of the left. History and economics shows this is one of the best setups a country can have, actually.
The EU makes it difficult to be conservative, due to their rules superseding national rules.
They can literally force unpopular changes on the locals due to their grandparents' government choosing to join the EU.
Additionally, whether the changes are intended or not, exposure to a broader market means that other countries gain access to your own market, and the EU by design prevents fine-tuning of internal market mechanisms to for example protect the local labor from foreign truckers, factory workers, farmers etc.
It's not an on-off button you can play with to get wealth out of. Once you're in your people's destiny is tied in to the EU's peoples' destinies.
For a small country like Poland the choice is to align with a block like EU or Russia or China or US or say a hypothetical confederation of Eastern Europeans countries... Either way, the choice matters for your people's future, and the Poles picked the atheist, gay pride block.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link