This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
2014-Era Neckbeard Shaming is BACK
"These Guys are Just Weird" is the new ad from pro-Kamala super PAC Won't Pac Down. You really do have to watch it to viscerally understand the impact. I am not gifted enough with words to give it justice. It's not clear if this ad will ever air on tv (seems a bit racy for that), but the internet is where modern elections are won or lost.
As grossly offensive as I find the ad, I cannot deny being impressed. Just a few days ago I pointed out that Democrats need better messaging if they want to persuade voters. This kind of appeal to base instinct is exactly what wins elections. The ethos of "when they go low, we go high," sure sounds good at dinner parties, but it likely cost Dems the 2016 election. In some sense, I truly think they were afraid of the sheer effectiveness of Willie Horton. It took Trump to scare them enough to pull out the stops.
The left accusing the right of being the weird party seems like throwing stones in glass houses. Do they really want to play that game?
Do people really not remember who hired the women's clothing kleptomaniac? Or who brought post-op FTM topless to the White House? Are they banking on the fact that the right will not retaliate because it'd be uncooth to point out just how insane they themselves look to the average person?
Maybe it's my own weird shitposter heritage that speaks this to me, but calling people weird when your coalition it at least partly made up of bioleninists seems like a bad rhetorical move. Neckbeards are so fucking tame and normal compared to how weird people have gotten now.
And this is all especially true if you want to play this for the internet. Maybe decorum will stop the Rs on TV, but Twitter is just going to reply tweet to you with trannyjaks and stills from the Olympics or Eurovision. It's like I'm watching normies go through the meme evolution of the chud/soyjak dyad years too late. And I'm pretty sure the left wing perspective doesn't really win that battle.
Your last and biggest black pill to take is "no, they literally don't remember anything the TV doesn't remind them of every five minutes"
Good news: it's a suppository.
There won't be any cognitive dissonance because there's no cognition, and there's no use waiting for it to kick in any moment now, even as the propaganda ramps up to new heights of hysteria.
I keep having to remind myself of that one. But it is less well defined than you're making it out to be. The past is forgotten until is is specifically brought back. And in this case we have the Trump campaign fully able to do this. This isn't government propaganda, it's campaigning in an election.
In that context they have to consider what rhetorical weapons they're handing over to the other side by positioning themselves in this way.
So I'm trying to figure out why they're opening themselves up for that. Do they really thing that either Trump won't go for those attacks or did they not even consider it?
Because J.D. Vance's weirdness, whether it's banning abortion, attacking childless women, and the various stuff included in Project 2025 and so on is something median voters care about. They don't care about transgender issues or whatever the Culture War issue of the day really is, as the 2022 midterms showed, when even GOP voters put it at the bottom of their concerns.
Transgender issues are very important to Republican's and centrists who still live in deep blue cities or your typical reactionary Christian's who hate all social liberalism, but the median swing voter in Wisconsin doesn't give a damn, whether they do end up voting for Trump or Kamala in the end, and actually, focusing on transgender issues as your comeback will just make you look more weird.
The median voter's view is, "look, I don't get it, but why are you so obsessed with it, weirdo?"
Eh leftists always try the “it’s just so weird and creepy you care so much about this. Who even notices the race of characters in Lord of the Rings”? When provably the left notices and cares a whole damn lot about exactly this sort of thing. This is a typical female social shaming tactic.
I've seen a number of people notice this, and prescribe as the counter-argument "then let me win." If it's such a trivial non-issue, if it's so not worth caring about, let alone fighting over, then why not just surrender the point and let the other side get their way?
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link