Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.
- 126
- 2
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
This might read as CW, but it's not!
What are The Motte's thoughts on:
Women asking out men, or proposing is.. icky?
To me, it's finnnneeeee. I see no issues or implications to it. I've been explicitly asked out by girls thrice before, and I agreed for two of them. I didn't think of them as lesser "women" or feel emasculated by it, if anything, I thought of them more highly for doing that.
But talking/reading around, it seems to me a lot of people find the idea of a girl asking out a guy, or even more so a girl proposing a guy really icky. They can't explain what's icky about it, but I think it's something like the lines of the girl being a man and the man being a girl. I know their reaction is visceral, but I find it puzzling.
It seems to be a 50:50 split of men and women hating it with, 50% of the people hating it.
A man who doesn't pay for dates is a woman
Okay, read the comments on this insta reel: https://instagram.com/p/C9u0_gqxGRo/
Holy cow, women really hate the idea! Really really hate it.
I can see the defense if it were along the lines of, 'the initiator pays' and since the man is the initiator most of the time, the man pays de facto. Other than not being a fan of unclear messaging, (why describe the inference and not the model?), I don't think most of the pressed women actually mean that. They literally believe the man has to pay.
Once again... I don't see the big deal! Sometimes she can pay, sometimes I can pay. I probably won't bring this up in the future given some women are sooo vehemently against it, I can't make heads or tails of it.
Like I don't get it, if the man is actually a man, his manliness or whatever will be so overwhelming that something as simple as splitting the bill on a date wouldn't even make a dent to it.
Seems like a 90:10 split of f:m hating it with almost all of the haters being female.
I feel like I am peering into some kind of lower class bubble where displays of masculinity and femininity need to be that much more in your face because there isn't that much of it to begin with? IDK, I feel like these people are operating at a more animalistic level than me. And this stresses the fuck out of me because I am evidently in the minority and can't model other humans.
I'm not a progressive or liberal by any stretch, but I really don't see what the "conservatives" are on about here.
I’d be more than down for a chick asking me out for a change. I wouldn’t feel emasculated either but rather flattered. I’d also feel relieved that for once, I don’t have to do a hard-carry through the entire process (only most of it).
I don’t think it’s happened a single time to me after high school, though. Even when it did (seldomly) happen back in those days, it was in the form of “teehee we should hang out some time 😊”, where I’d then have to take the reins and drive the interaction forward to make any actual hanging out occur.
“The initiator pays” is but some retconned excuse for women to justify why men should pay while trying to preserve their Wonderfulness under a lipstick feminist framework, since almost always the initiator is the man. The rule might as well be “the taller one pays.”
That being said, especially nowadays I generally pay for women on dates. Usually for first dates, this just consists of sending her a taxi or rideshare to pick her up to bring her to my place, and one to send her back after or the next day. If we order food later, it’d be through a delivery account of mine and I’m not exactly going to send her an invoice for her half.
If we do go out later to a bar or club or something, I’ll pay as it makes for a better, smoother experience. Having to pause to split a check interrupts the momentum and her feeling of “omg one thing led to another and it just like happened.” Even beyond the first date, it risks offending her princess complex and/or triggering the ick.
Doing the asking out and/or proposing takes a level of agency, courage, and initiative that women generally lack. Bumble requiring women to message first just mostly resulted in women messaging “hi” or “hi :)” such that the men would need to take the wheel and lead the conversation. And even that was too much for women, hence Bumble exploring other avenues beyond women messaging first.
Getting proposed to indulges the aforementioned princess complexes of women. It’s her special moment where her man bends the knee to present her with a shiny expensive trinket that she can wear and showoff around acquaintances, friends, family. In contrast, the thought of doing the asking out or proposing is insulting. She is the prize, why should she need to grovel? Ugh, gross. Romance and courtship should be something that just happens to her.
It’s always funny to see threads in the AIO, AITA, relationship advice type subreddits that involve a female OP complaining about her boyfriend not proposing. Sometimes, buried in Controversial, someone asks “Sounds like you want to get married more than he does; why don’t you propose?” The way female Redditors try to square this circle is by saying that women are Socialized to be proposed to rather than doing the proposing, thus the boyfriend should do the Bare Minimum and propose to her if he cares about her. If not for the oppressive effects of the patriarchy, of course, women would be just as agentic as men.
No comment on the bulk of your post, but regarding reddit I'm not convinced the vast majority of the posts in any advice subreddit (in particular relationship subs or AITA ,[Am I The Asshole]) aren't just the same random people typing imaginary, usually wildly implausible scenarios for trolling purposes and/or to keep the subs active.
At least one such troll keeps a list.
I don't think it qualifies as successful trolling if your post is removed by the moderators or people just tell you to seek professional help. The whole point of trolling is people taking the bait and getting riled up, that is, spending more time replying to you than you spent time writing the original message.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link