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I've been reading up a bit on skeletal growth, and I wanted to make an observation about the discussion around skeletal growth that I see online.
I consistently see a negative attitude across mainstream sites like reddit towards anyone inquiring whether they have growth left, or asking about advice on how to grow more. I think this might play into Culture War because there's obviously a battle between the different "pills" on the role of male height in sexual attraction, and perhaps this battle has reached the general public. It seems commenters on these posts want to distance themselves from the "black pillers" who place extreme importance on height. They're so scared of being lumped in with the outgroup that they will avoid giving any practical advice.
Basically, it seems that commenters assume there's some motive around confidence or sexual attraction involved whenever a guy is asking about how to grow taller, and because of that assumption, they try to address the "deeper issue" instead of addressing the guy's practical concern around actually getting taller. People can have a multitude of reasons for wanting to increase not just height but frame size. Frame size governs the maximum amount of strength and muscle you'll be able to build. Average stature is probably the ideal for overall health. Then you have the idea that height can be useful (but not necessary of course) for business endeavors, etc. Commenters immediately assume that "growth/height" posts are the result of low confidence and some kind of issue with women, but overall stature (not just height) does seem to have benefits, and while nobody should beat themselves up for their stature, why not optimize it?
People consistently say that "it's mostly genetics", and while it may indeed be "mostly genetics" that explains deviations from normal height at a population level (?, because what about the theory of increasing height with current generations due to better nutrition), you have no way of knowing whether a particular person's deviation from normal height is explained mostly by genetics.
It could be that a particular individual's deviation from normal height is mostly explained by non-genetic factors. Things like low birth weight, malnutrition, hypothyroidism or other glandular conditions, and even childhood trauma can result in stunted growth. Now, these subsets of the population may not be very common, but they exist and it's not fair to tell them they wouldn't be able to significantly change their stature with the right medical treatment at the right time (perhaps involving HGH or other hormonal treatment to stimulate catch-up growth).
Also, even for people without some preexisting cause of short stature, do we really know that their parents achieved their genetic potential? What if the child has the potential for greater growth than they are experiencing? Couldn't there be a relatively safe way and time to take HGH to boost height in such a case? And aside from taking HGH, the things that optimize growth tend to be good for your overall health anyway: right sleeping habits, diet, active lifestyle, and maybe some protein supplementation. Yet most people don't even give these suggestions to people asking for help on reddit (to be charitable, a decent number of commenters on "growth" discussions do give these suggestions, but why would anyone not give these suggestions?)
Then you have all the people who say "your growth plates are closed at your age", sometimes to men who are freaking 18 years old. It does seem that many people (especially women) do not grow past 18, I certainly did not, but it doesn't seem responsible to make such a blanket statement. For most people, growth plates close at different times and often not completely until your early 20s. There's tons of research on this. Also, not that many people really "try" to get taller for a significant amount of time, at least not once they are 18. A lot of people seem to accept the "100% genetics" shtick. Do we really know what could be possible? Who are we to say that a well-timed calorie surplus and right sleeping habits/diet/exercise/stress management and relaxation in someone's late teens and early 20s, combined with some HGH and something to keep growth plates open, would not measurably change their final height, assuming the person was not optimizing these factors before? It may not always work, but who is to say it wouldn't have an effect for a given individual?
It shouldn't be taboo for someone to try to optimize their own body.
Then there's all the people who say they had crappy lifestyle habits and still grew tall, or had great lifestyle habits and had short stature. And to that I say, indeed genetics has a big role to play. Some people will be big and tall no matter almost anything, others could be small no matter what (although HGH might have some effect anyway if started at the right times?). My main point is that there's probably a subset of the population that is underachieving relative to their genetic potential, so why shouldn't those people try to reach their genetic limit? Why does that point elude so many people on mainstream sites? I have provided some reasons at the start of the post but perhaps there are others.
Now, I don't believe in giving people false expectations, so I understand if that's why people are often dismissive. But, while you should not "expect" height or other skeletal growth from any intervention, it's not right to entirely and often smugly dismiss it like so many commenters on these kinds of posts do. It really does not seem impossible. In so far as my common sense is accurate, there are things people can do to optimize growth and maybe make a difference, HGH being the most significant of those things but healthy lifestyle habits being not insignificant. Perhaps I am wrong about much of this, I am still forming my opinions on this matter but this post shows where I stand at this time.
You’ve at least partially answered your own question. Height is a sexually dimorphic trait, with men being taller than women and women caring more about male height than men caring more about female height. Thus, mainstream blue-pill spaces (such as Reddit) are averse to discussions on male height, for they take away from gender egalitarianism (except when men can be framed as shitty and women as victims).
Meanwhile, despite supposed body-positivity, blue-pillers are quite fond of height-shaming or height-downgrading when it comes to men they don’t like. DAE lift-wearing DeSantis is 5’8” and peak Trump was barely 6’0” at most?
Women further detest discussions on male height because reminders that women prefer male dominance traits like height (or strength, power, ability to inflict violence, etc.) make them feel more superficial, submissive, meme-like and less like the Wonderful, strong independent #GirlBosses that they of course are. Or discussions that feature men optimizing their way toward garnering more female attraction. Such discussions compromise the blue-pill, Disneyian notion that attraction is some magical, unpredictable, unquantifiable phenomenon that Just Happens.
Sometimes blue-pill women will begrudgingly concede the female preference for male height with enough studies or anecdotal, social-proofed evidence such as TikTok video after video of young women dunking on short men. Yet, they’ll still look to blame societal Conditioning and/or take the Harvard-on-Asians route in saying that in their Lived Experience, short men are ick-inducing not for their shortness—but rather the personalities of short men—the toxicity and insecurities of short men in being short.
Women don’t care about male height. If they do, the preference isn’t that widespread. If it is, it isn’t that drastic. And if it is, it’s not a big deal. Even if it is, it’s only due to Socialization, toxic masculinity, and male insecurities. And even if it isn’t, all you incels and manlets deserve it and should stop talking about it.
Women are often low-key (and sometimes high-key) hostile against male self-improvement, especially with regard to sexual market value (a concept of which is gross and icky in their eyes, and shouldn't exist). Part of it may be it’s a reminder of their own hypoagency and lack of accountability (see, for example, Ryan Long on Girl vs. Guy Motivation). Weight is a dimension by which many Western women could improve their lot, yet they loathe to admit as such much less do so.
Another part may be envy, as much of what makes women more attractive or unattractive for relationships involve cannot-put-the-toothpaste-back-in-the-tube situations like age, tattoos, past promiscuity, single motherhood. In contrast, thanks to preselection and female mate-choice copying, male promiscuity and out-of-wedlock children can make men more attractive.
A third component may be that women want naturals, not imposters who somehow cheated their rightfully deserved fate. Women are generally quite hostile against men doing things such as steroids, working out “too much”, social media optimization, wearing lifts, getting limb-lengthening surgeries, grinding approaches for experience and/or to play the numbers game. In this realm, men are generally quite supportive of other men, despite nominally increasing the competition.
I wonder what proportion of those in favor of gender affirmation therapies and surgeries for children and teenagers to transition would be in favor of dispensing HGH for boys and/or young men to grow taller. After all, what could be more gender-affirming for the average boy or young man than to be taller?
Interesting thoughts, thanks for the response. To your last point, ironically, it was on gender affirmation subreddits that I found the most accurate information on possible ways to boost height, including mentions that growth plates don't generally close until the early 20s, and that it's partially from lower HGH levels that people don't grow much in their early 20s, or that sometimes postural and hormonal changes can indeed increase height a bit through cartilaginous growth, etc. And even discussion on future possibilities of growth plate implantation/restoration. It was only in those subreddits that the discussion was taken seriously and practical advice given.
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