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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   32884 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 10, 2022

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Voluntary transactions, the same way we clear most markets.

Yes, that's the trick. You ask a person "at what price would you voluntarily part with this piece of property?"

and if they offer such a price, they should by definition be willing to accept an offer at that price without a fuss.

They're free to name an arbitrarily high amount, but then they'll be held to that number by being taxed on it.

If you are objecting to the morality of taxing assets at all you can find this problematic Otherwise, there's really no fairer way to establish a valuation for purposes of imposing a tax.

They're free to name an arbitrarily high amount, but then they'll be held to that number by being taxed on it.

Well then it's not strictly voluntary, is it? If you can't afford to pay the taxes on your subjective valuation, you're forced out of your home just as surely as if the government re-assessed your property at a higher rate than you can afford.

This is why we don't normally tax wealth.

Well then it's not strictly voluntary, is it?

In the same way any tax isn't strictly voluntary, yes.

But this argument generalizes to literally any sort of tax you could impose. I'm happy to have that discussion.

But I thought we were engaging with the LVT idea itself.

If you can't afford to pay the taxes on your subjective valuation, you're forced out of your home just as surely as if the government re-assessed your property at a higher rate than you can afford.

Which is why you better set your valuation at the correct level!

Is it better to depend on the government to declare a valuation which you have almost no control over?

This is why we don't normally tax wealth.

Also because wealth can be easily hidden or obfuscated. As opposed to land, which is physically located exactly where you expect it to be at all times, and can't be hidden.

But surely taxing land doesn't prevent someone from shifting their wealth into other, non-taxed assets!!!!

In the same way any tax isn't strictly voluntary, yes.

But this argument generalizes to literally any sort of tax you could impose. I'm happy to have that discussion.

But I thought we were engaging with the LVT idea itself.

The LVT is a taxation of 100% of land value. This is unlike any other tax we currently do impose that I am aware of.

Is it better to depend on the government to declare a valuation which you have almost no control over?

Yes, quite obviously, because I don't have to pay to vote. If I don't like the taxation level or think the assessments are wildly inaccurate, I have regulatory, judicial, and electoral recourse. In your system, if any person in the world decides they want to force me out, they can and I can't do anything about it except pay them their declared value.

Imagine how this affects investment, too: if you want to attempt a development, you have to pay extra taxes for the privilege of not having your investment bought ought from under you as soon as the risk is retired. If you're lucky, you get to just about break even. If you're unlucky, you lose your investment and the high taxes you paid.

Yes, that's the trick. You ask a person "at what price would you voluntarily part with this piece of property?"

No. You come to me with an offer and earnest money, and I decide if it is worth my time to bother listening to you based largely on the number.

It is aggravating to price everything in my life, knowing that I am fucked if I get it wrong because they are out to get me.

If someone values my home at $3 million because of the feng shui, they can offer me $2 million and keep $1 million of surplus for themselves. $2 million is more than I value my current home. Now someone is going to try "we already know you are a whore we are just negotiating on the price" to figure out exactly where below $2 million my value is and that is when I tell them to eat shit. If I have to defend my property constantly then I might as well go full ancap and blast anyone who steps on it.

No. You come to me with an offer and earnest money, and I decide if it is worth my time to bother listening to you based largely on the number.

I mean this happens, constantly, all the time. If you live in a desirable area you will get a veritable stream of calls, texts, e-mails trying to make you an offer on your land.

It's dreadfully annoying to filter.

From my perspective, I'd much rather just publicly set the asking price for which its worth my time to even engage with a possible buyer, and only interact with those who can prove the ability to pay the asking price, and everyone else can pound sand.

If someone values my home at $3 million because of the feng shui, they can offer me $2 million and keep $1 million of surplus for themselves.

And if you think there's someone out there who values your house at $3 mil, maybe set the price at $3 mil, or $2.5 to split the difference.

Nothing in this hypothetical situation demands you set the price exactly where you value it. You're free to set a 'strategic' asking price too.

I mean this happens, constantly, all the time. If you live in a desirable area you will get a veritable stream of calls, texts, e-mails trying to make you an offer on your land.

It's dreadfully annoying to filter.

Less annoying than if you can't say no to them.

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