This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Anti-Indian sentiment, pajeet being mainstream and dating patterns
There has been a hockey stick like growth in terms of anti Indian sentiment online where people use the word pajeet (or jeet) for people of ancestry from the Indian subcontinent, pajeeta if you are female. Likely coined on 4chan to target sikhs who like telugus have been notorious for doing whatever it takes to get out of the country and bringing their cousins aling too, many of thier names end the suffix jeet, hence the ethnic slur "Pajeet". 2 years ago NDTV, a mainstream English speaking Indian news channel did a program about the usage of the word pajeet and how it shot up, I remember that because I was a niche microcelebe and a lot of my mutuals started using the word pajeet to describe other Indians who behaved like the stereotype, at that time the sentinemtn towards Indians on twitter was not as bad lol.
Here is Charleston White partaking in hitting the new pinata in town. In the online circles, the name has been adopted by some who use it to describe a large number of people who unfortunately fit the negative stereotypes. Due to extreme amounts of poverty and a large number of people where the HBD balance is skewed heavily due to various subclans and well things you are legally not supposed to talk about. The stereotype describes the person being smelly, extremely dishonest, high amounts of nepotism and being overall unattractive due to being skinny fat, short and dark. Most Indians absolutely do fuck others over, especially others of their own kind, scam call centres scammed my dad's colleague out of 50k USD and tried to get my own dad thrice. I simply wish to know how this seemed to have happened, the rise against an entire subcontinent overnight did take me by surprise.
My own experiences are not the same as firstly all the euros or non-Indians I met were tourists or digital nomads, most probably thought I was Jewish or Arabic or something since I am slightly different looking. This is to say that I did not encounter any racism that others of my ilk probably faced. My travels have been very limited to just Southeast Asia too, I would suspect that it is more hostile on the internet than irl. The subcontinent certainly has all the issues mentioned here and more though the people who migrate without indulging in out-and-out fraud are not this way at all. More than half the people migrate via various dishonest tactics but a very large number is of genuinely talented people who are likely suffering from being bunched together with others. It is as if you can just call Indians or Jews names online and you will go viral, is it because quite a few people from both ethnicities are high on the totem poll now that bioleninism is purity cycling where you could only say stuff against Caucasians and East Asians before.
One theory I have is that due to a lot of Incels online being Indian and the sharp growth of internet usage in India thanks to super cheap data, the vast majority of them being people who fit the stereotypes. There are plenty of Indians who just are not like the stereotype while many absolutely do fit it due to a combination of poverty, culture, and maybe genetics, I do have a soft spot for those who migrated out and have to be associated with the bottom of the barrel people at home and border jumping swindlers in the west.
Incel forums and looksmaxxing becoming more mainstream plays a big part too. Most would use the term currycel for self-description with ricecel being for east asians. The oxford study results paint a grim picture for East Asians where it states that women of east asia are more likely to prefer dating people of other races with whites being highest rated, I would argue that the subcontinent and south-east Asia has the similar issues. Posters on incel forums would self-deprecate quite heavily, whilst I mention the shortcomings of people here sometimes, it is never me saying stuff like ethnic tax. Quite a lot of the info you see out there did come from these forums.
short off tangent remark
In Thailand the nightclubs with tourists were basically tourists and Thai girls, barely any Thai dudes at all, you most only see mixed-race couples where the guy was non-Thai and the woman wasn't. These are taboo topics you cannot discuss that incels brought up on various forums. They would always cite Elliot Rodgers the supreme gentleman as an example of why this mating strategy would be worse for Hapas (half-east Asians). Sort of a tangent here but I never did see this being brought up. I never had an issue with interacting with girls of any race in nightclubs, during my extremely short time in SEA I nearly exclusively spoke with girls from my region, a few Arabics (Christians somehow, every time) and mostly Euros. Is the whole race and dating thing really that fucked? thought I would say that Eastern Asian and South-east asian women, in general, were super receptive, way way more than any I had ever met, I never went home with one or anything but it did feel odd how me not being East/Southeast Asian was a positive in their eyes. Anyhow, apologies for the long meandering post, I had something happen yesterday that did scare me lol.
I first noticed Indians about 15 years ago. Every single one I worked with was an H1B that almost certainly lied to get the job. In fact, I have never had a satisfactory experience working with an Indian in any position. I keep running into the same failure pattern where it's like they simply don't understand language, they just make convincing mouth sounds to get people to leave them alone. I've never successfully communicated a technical problem to an Indian in a way they've understood, no matter how hard I try. Other colleagues understand what I'm trying to communicate immediately.
My entire region was over ran by them. They all drove Honda Odysseys and basically didn't follow any traffic laws what so ever. At some point my then girlfriend, now wife with a confusing ethnic sounding last name got an interview at an American company that had been completely taken over by Indians. She was told point blank that they weren't going to hire her because she was white and they only hire other Indians. To this day she carries a grudge against Indians for being so nakedly discriminated against.
Later when she was venting to her father about the incident, he asked which company, and recognized the name. Said they were notorious for just blatantly lying on every contract bid they made, and basically doing no competent work what so ever.
I wouldn't say I'm shocked if people notice misbehavior that blatant and stereotypical.
Classic lol, it happens here too, I just dont say stuff like this out loud as I dont know how others here would percieve it, dont wanna get doxxed
I saw people not interweaving between lanes for the first time in my life when I travelled outside the country, you cannot drive here at all, zero laws are followed.
Elaborate on this, you think they dont get english or the language you work in, btw indian scams for migration primarily happen in like 4 states, so 3 in the south and then sikhs from punjab, they make up 90 percent plus of all h1b and it aint because they are smart. Nepotism runs deep.
Shit like this is why I can't defend them anywhere, in my own home nation you get nationalised bioleninism and in the US you get ethnic nepotism where people call the host nation, its people and its culture names but refuse to ever return back to their homeland. Mass migration in any capacity is morally wrong. Brampton, the place where you see the highest density of subcon people is unlivable.
You have an industry where people buy h1bs by paying another firm to get it from them, its a pretty fucked thing. The quintessential Indian firms that have offices in the US are basically pajeet outsourcing operations, they cant be good hackers. There are great Indian hackers but most people who write code for a living are not it. Programming jobs are seen as a goldmine here so people make milking them thier lifes objective.
I have no clue. Conversationally I never had any clue they had trouble with English. It was flawless. But it's like they suffered from some sort of specific language processing disorder where they simply could not synthesize new knowledge from spoken or written word. I have no idea how they learned anything in the first place, because nothing I ever said or wrote to them sunk in.
I think the best example I have is we had this one H1B on the QA team on a project I was on. Management was doing a demo, and wanted everybody off the servers so that the demo went off without a hitch. H1B decides that's the perfect time to do a full automated unit test against the demo servers. Project Manager runs into the back room mid demo yelling "WHO'S ON THE SERVERS!" H1B raises his hand and explains that he's running all the unit test. PM nearly cusses him out screaming at him to not run any more unit test, to which H1B agrees, and leaves satisfied that the message was got across. 15 minutes later PM runs back again wondering who the fuck didn't understand the simple directive stay off the server and H1B raises his hand again, because he was running the same damned unit test he was just running again. PM just stood their dumbfounded anyone could be that fucking stupid. Shit like that was a daily occurrence.
There was another Indian woman who was a project manager and my main point of contact for a contract. She was also the requirements expert for the project. There were 3 requirements that had this interaction where only 2 out of 3 of them could ever be completely obeyed in a fairly common edge case. No matter which two you picked, the 3rd was impossible. I spend roughly two days attempting to explain this problem to her, and consistently failed. It just kept going round and round, where I would explain that if I followed A & B, I couldn't follow C. She'd tell me to just do C anyways. I'd explain if I did C no matter what, I couldn't do A, so I'd be left with B & C. She'd insist I do A anyways. I'd explain if I did A & C I couldn't do B. And round and round and round like that until she tapped another project manager who immediately grokked the problem and changed the requirements. And that's more or less how every interaction with her went, which was frustrating because she was my primary technical point of contact. Every problem I had was 48-72 hours of beating my head against a brick wall until she handed me off to a non-Indian colleague who resolved the problem in 5 minutes.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link