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Rotherham is in large part the reason I don't comment on this forum anymore.
I no longer believe in cross-ideological discussion. I no longer believe in good faith, or shared values in disagreement, or the merits of discourse.
There have been a million things like this lockdowns, vaccine passports, the summer of floyd, the millions of ancestral liberties stolen from us, a thousand tyrannies some more abstract, some more immediate, etc. , and for the longest time I tried to persuade people... but its concisely summarized by the fact that even after hearing about HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of white girls raped with the assistance of their own government... between 1 in 6 and 1 in 3 girls age 11-17 in the affected cities...raped for days or even years on end... 11 year olds raped by 4 men who used bicycle pumped to widen their anal cavity even as they wept and cried out for help....
After explaining THAT, and that the government itself knew and covered it up, and let the perpetrators go free...
People will still hem and haw, and not accept violence RIGHT THIS SECOND is called for, and that we should feel anguish and moral scorn every second we're delayed by practical realities, eternally filled with fury, humiliation, and longing, with sharpened knives and hearts of hatred for the day of justice and vengeance.
People will here that... Up to a million girls by some estimates, from the core ethnicity, of not just a NATO power, but an Anglo power, the subject of the "special relationship", the motherland of the founding fathers... And then NOT say that violent revolution is called for. Not say that Oceans of blood are demanded. Not say That any not full of rage and passionate intensity are nothing worth.
That if the best lack all conviction, then they are not only not the best, they are not even the worst, but are instead worms in human flesh unworthy of life
This is what the west is now, old men and women telling raped children to shut up and not be racist.
And everyone has known this on both sides of the pond for at least 10 years, it came out under Obama, and it's still going on, and no US politician has called for the british government to be sanctioned, or arms supplied to british white nationalists.
And when I say this to people in conversation, they use discussion, discourse norms, "charity" and the usually hems and haws to dodge all responsibility to even experience rage at the injustice.
This isn't a result of a lack of dispassionate rationality, or lack of charity, if no one ascribed good intentions ever again til the end of time it would be too soon.
The problem isn't that we were intolerant, or uncurious, or too quick to ascribe to malice what was better ascribed to stupidity... It was all malice!
When a Detective asks a white five year old whether or not she consented to have sex with 10 pakistani men, its malice. When her social worker signs off on her "marriage" to one of them and even attends the wedding, it is malice. When councilmen and government bureaus cover for them and pressure any who tries to speak out, and sends special envoys to intimidate victims, It is malice. When police arrest the parents trying to rescue their own 9 year old daughters and don't even question the Pakistani men holding her, it is malice. When US politicians and media say nothing, and gladly bury the issue as this CONTINUES in one of it's closest allied countries, it is malice. When they suggest expanding immigration into their own countries after seeing the example of the UK, IT IS MALICE.
Rationality, politeness, tolerance, charity (personal and intellectual), the benefit of the doubt, everything that came out of Overcoming Bias, less wrong, Scott Alexander, and the old Motte...
All of it is as discredited as Yudkowsky's research into AI alignment that went nowhere and has no relation to the associational intuitive AI we got.
Our foes, the enemies of the west, they aren't biased, they aren't irrational, they aren't operating under different assumptions...Whether invader or traitor, they are simply evil.
And any who press the matter and assess their psychology won't find a rational soul with some cognitive biases, but will find the most depraved blends of cowardice, sycophancy, depravity, resentment, perversion, inferiority complexes and irrational hatred...
This Indian professor did an excellent lecture into the complete depravity that dominates Indian culture and psychology
And while Pakistani, islamic, and --according to at least several well thought of books and authors-- Classical Jewish psychology are all different, yet we find similar depravities and monstrosities of mental patterns that rule in cultures dominated by clannishness, low IQ, Sexual Resentment, minority inferiority complexes, Low trust or some combination of these and other depravities.
In a word nearly all cultures that aren't an immediate product of European Civilization, or East Asian Civilizations that more or less consciously copied it.
The entire project of this space is wrong... It is not the case that the madnesses of the modern world are caused by common universal cognitive biases, or poorly thought of philosophies that can be overcome, the way a conscientious high IQ Protestant with a good education might stop and think more closely and avoid a mistake.
The problems of the world are created by biologically twisted and totally culturally poisoned souls, and far from the Nature vs. Nature debate, these two feed off and reinforce each other as across generations inbreeding and other depraved cultural sexual practices have created a biological stock that cannot but be depraved, and that depraved biological stock cannot but pervert and reproduce depraved cultures.
And communist and progressive cultures select out the most twisted and unfortunate of a noble cultures biological stock, the most frayed ends of its cultural values, and then weaves these weak and stained strands of an otherwise healthy sheet, to create twisted and depraved subcultures and values that can replicate their depravity through the previously healthy stock.
Underperforming minorities in otherwise high performing cultures they 'empower' to tear down the high performance; unprincipled and narcissistic workers they elevate to regulate dynamic industries; ordinary perverts they organize into degenerate sexualities and conspire to wield them against healthy families, and grant them access to healthy children; and invaders from more depraved cultures they conspire to let in.
All of this is not a mistake, it's not an unintended consequence, it's not a cognitive bias or faulty premise... it is intentional. It is motivated by perverse resentful psychology, by resentment, status lust, and even more base lusts.
Our enemies are not mistaken, they are evil. They are evil from the core of their biology, culture, values, psychology, and sociology.
10s of thousands of UK muslims saw, knew and participated in the horror, and their wives and family knew, and they said and did nothing.
And 10s of thousands of leftist UK government officials conspired to cover it up.
This has happened to hundreds of thousands of white girls, possibly as many as a million... not because of a failure of charity or tolerance or curiousity or to ascribe good motive... but because of a failure to simply identify evil. To categorically and ruthlessly declare enemies and vow hatred.
A complete and total failure to resort to violence, ethnic conflict, vendetta, rage, hatred, fury, illegality, and ruthlessness.
"Charity" is now a concept fully discredited.
And while one might try to protest that there's a difference between intellectual charity and charity to migrants or christian charity which has ever preached nothing but forgiveness to these unforgivable monsters... I don't think there is.
I think the idea of intellectual charity uses the word "charity" accurately. And is thus fully discredited.
If you had given your suspicion that this would happen, and described the 3rd world psychology that would perpetrate this or the progressive psychology that would allow it to happen, and willingly enable it... There is not a "Rationalist" or "Post-Rationalist" space that would not have censored you, called you "uncharitable", or argued that that is obviously not the case and no one could be so morally mistaken.
But the racist grandfathers, 14 year old boys, 4channers, White Nationalists, prison Nazis, they could have and did tell you INSTANTLY. They would, and did, predict exactly this and described exactly the 3rd world psychology that would commit it, and described exactly the perverse sexual acts that would be committed, and describe exactly the progressive/communist values that would cover for it, and described exactly the broken conservative, aging white boomer reaction to it, and the minority ethnic interests that would enable it and openly advocate for it.
And they would have said Nigger, Towelhead, Turd-people, Pajeet, Cuck, Faggot, Race-Traitor, kike, cunt, and all the rest... And this would have accurately and succinctly conveyed the depth of depravity, treason, and moral approprium under discussion.
And they would have never been allowed to say as much here, and there would have been no way to convey the underlying idea.
The Truth, and the actual reason it is true, could not be conveyed, in RATIONALIST spaces that claim to only value the truth... Because we don't value reason or the truth... We value politeness and discussion, and the truth has been allowed to go to hell because of it.
If any critical mass of people here or in other rationalist spaces actually valued the truth above politeness we would rationally immediately ditch all the speech norms of rationalist spaces and adopt those of 4Chan.
Where everyday you could have seen exactly this discussed, predicted, and parallels drawn to comparable things happening across the west.
But the Motte won't, because the Motte doesn't value the truth that highly, but rather values endless self justifying discussion for its own sake.
But to summarize all that in more honest and truthful language... The language of the future. The language of ACTUAL truth, rationality and honesty
TL;Dr
Hundreds of thousands of white girls have been raped in the UK, and are almost certainly being raped across the many countries of the west because you are faggots, cucks and race traitors who value you failed cuck discussion norms far more that the truth. Failed discussion norms taught to you by failed jews like Yudkowsky and Alexander who openly admit their ritualized cuckoldry and sexual depravity. In this you are a microcosm and exact continuation of the failed morality and intellectual norms that have led the west to this exact moment.
Charity is dead, she was a traitorous whore who could never have suffered enough.
Hatred alone is the truth, the light, and the way.
To give offense in and of itself is to drive towards the truth.
And that which cannot be said with the fury of an outrageous insult, that which does not wound its listener, and tear asunder all but the strongest social bonds and friendships, anything that can be """tolerated""" even if not agreed to, is invariably a lie, and is nothing worth.
Any light produced without heat is an illusion, a trick cast on the wall, a fire in a film that illuminates only what the director chooses and warms nothing. Real productive though, real productive discussion builds heat to intolerable levels and then combusts, burning away the lies in it's warming light, and injuring or killing the liars who crawled amongst their tools of darkness.
I wish that if instead of reading Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality or Rationality from Ai to Zombies whilst I was in school, that I had read the Turner Diaries or other far right ethnographic works
I largely agree with some of what you've written, but not all of it. But it's interesting! In a way, it feels good to read, as it's rare to see somebody sharing what they actually think and feel without excessive self-censorship. But I don't think you've found the truth. Some of what you say get the symptoms right, but the causes are really elusive.
Let me start out by warning you that you care too much. Of course, we need people who care, as nihilism is a danger, but those on the left who are the most insane and the least logical tend to care too much. Once you start a moral war against something, you're almost always on a bad path. All the social movements causing these problems are ran by people with strong moral convictions, and it has come to the point where I instinctively avoid moralizers (I still have high standards for taste, though). I don't think it's a coincidence that you're angry about sexual abuse of children, as it's one of the worse things that people can think of. But all political discussions degrade into accusing eachother of the few things which carry the highest social stigma (which at the moment is pedophilia, nazism and racism). Is this not the same fear of immorality and social judgement which makes people act absolutely crazy in the first place?
You hear one side of the news, and they repeatedly confirm the same thing. But "your enemies" are repeatedly told another another side of the story, even if it's one fabricated by the media. Even if the media turns out to be wrong in the end, only we are getting the updated information, other people have already moved on to other things, and the memory of who was wrong in the past (because the media told them) remains unchanged. All sides feel like they're on a streak in which they were right right every time. "Once again the criminal was migrant!" "Once again there was racist intent!" "Once again the early life section confirms they are jewish!" "Last-state capitalism claims another victim!"
All of these issues are much bigger than just migration. Some will tell you that the western world was subverted. Some will tell you that people are becoming "cucks" because Testosterone levels are decreasing. Some will tell you that the marxists are to blame for this, others will tell you it's the media, others will tell you that it's a rich elite, others will tell you that it's the result of an ideology which first too over western education. Others will tell you that good times create weak men, others will inform you that technology must result in weaking freedoms. Others will tell you that capitalism is to blame, others will tell you that materialism and the death of god is to blame. Others will tell you that it's due to increased social competition and that we're forced into the rat race. Others will blame Moloch, game theory and social dilemmas as they warn you not to hate the player but rather hate the game. Some speculate that ideologies have replaced religion, others that propaganda and marketing research has reached incredible levels and that we're creating superstimuli that humans cannot possibly resist. Finally, some say that weighting hurt feelings higher than problem-solving will be our doom.
Is this not a stat which goes something like "1 in 3 girls experience sexual harassment"? The threshold for that is very low now compared to the past. The rapes are the worst instances of this problem, it's not that 1 in 3 girls are literally raped.. Unless you count even grouping or a slap on the ass as rape. EDIT: Rotherham seems like a particularly bad case, and you might not have exaggerated here, my bad.
Somehow, the population has largely been spiritually defeated. We all think something like "We all ought to do something", but nobody wants to go first. But it won't make a difference even if a single person does something extreme, I think. As for those with convictions - do they fare much better? I see more conviction pushing for immigration than against it. I think it's because naivety, idealism and conviction correlate with one another.
I never bought into any of these things. I don't even see why you would, as the rational world is at odds with the natural world. Academia leans left, "rationality" is deeply materialistic, "tolerance" never made sense as a concept and these so-called intellectuals cannot even interpret Karl Popper correctly, much less think further than him (which is not even hard). Charity movements disgusts me, and not only because charities waste 90% of their money and exist as a guilt tax, not because they're not motivated by actual goodwill (thought they rarely are), and not even because they simply result in a kind of reverse eugenics which makes the problem that it's meant to solve even worse, but because doing math with qualia in a superficial manner is in terrible taste. In the first place, "suffering is bad" is a terribly stupid assumption which misses the problem. And people from all these spaces tend to think like Elon Musk does, and arrive at the conclusion that we need to mass-import indians. Western intellectualism disappoints me, I can barely respect the one-in-a-million. Not only do they not strike me as intelligent, they all seem to have a "number go up" mentality which conflicts with healthy living and subjective experience.
And it is like you said "The entire project of this space is wrong". It's not a question of intelligence, but of character.
They wouldn't succeed without massive support, though. What makes people watch the destruction of their culture in real time and go "Maybe I'm just over-reacting"? What makes somebody more afraid of being racist than of being murdered? Even if those who caused these effects were evil, the average person can't be said to be evil, and for every evil person behind the scenes, there's at least 99 normies cheering for them.
By the way, "sexual depravity" seem to correlate with intelligence. A lot of good things and bad things correlate, which is why "good" and "evil" aren't easy to cut in two. Intelligence also correlates with openness, which is why intellectual conversations easily enter areas that regular people find repulsive. But the feelings of disgust and the ability to think about things which repulse you are valuable.
Finally, the evil you can define still does not manifest clearly. You can fight against immigration, but that's a vague idea. You likely don't have concrete individuals to point your anger at. I think most people face this problem, they're angry but they only have vague targets to point the anger at. Speaking of anger, are you perhaps projecting your own frustration with yourself? You're angry at yourself for being unable to stop the problem, so you point this anger at us? Not that I blame you for this. (By the way, please don't do anything stupid)
Nobody really does. And you seem concerned not about falsehood but about the destruction of something you deem good. Society as a whole pretends to be partial while fighting for their own values. These two can co-exist, but only when people believe that their values will win on an even playing-field.
Finally, The Motte likely isn't allowed to value truth the highest, since they would get shut down if they got too much negative media attention. And without moderation of things like politeness, many users would simply leave, and we're not many people to begin with.
I think honestly we’ve made real convictions dirty words, often hiding behind rhetoric about nuance and tolerance and so on. A healthy culture has absolute convictions about itself and its place in the world. It doesn’t mince words in an attempt to curry favor with other people. It forthrightly declares that its ways are good, true, and right lives up to them and enforces them on others. Healthy Britain remade much( of the globe in a more western image — banning evil practices and forcing good practices, spreading her language and religion and folkways. They banned child prostitution in much of the globe and ending burning women on funeral pyres in India.
And this is exactly the rot, head down. We can’t talk about the reality of things happening in the world, or causes that we all intuitively understand but that are too impolite to say aloud. And therefore, no action can actually be taken. We can’t say that thug culture needs to be ended, or that Islam enjoins jihad and subjugation of infidels. We can’t say that maybe we shouldn’t be taking in millions with values inimical to our own values and pretending that they’ll assimilate.
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