site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 17, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

16
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Some people say that power over humans is just fundamentally not as interesting to intelligent people as playing with abstractions and earning six figures while being a vulnerable serf, which entirely filters out geniuses. I call them nerds and press (x) for doubt.

Power over humans might be poorly scalable / unreliable / limited by luck. Soft sciences are rather incapable compared to STEM stuff. Maybe 160 IQ focused into math does miracles, while 160 IQ focused into soft stuff lets you predict people to some impressive - but not that terrifying - degree? Human brains are complex systems. And then there are interactions between them. Also, since industrial revolution (or maybe earlier, to some extent), such a genius needs to also take into account crazy changes in tech too.

And then there's other similarly (or significantly) intelligent people to deal with.


Random crap happens and shapes world events to some extent. Does anyone remember ACTA? I was in middle school at the time. I can't remember clearly how, but I stumbled upon some random IRC channel and also Facebook group "protesting" it (just few thousands of users complaining pointlessly, on platform). There were few people on the IRC channel, and they DoSed some random government website. No idea what they were expecting. I didn't really expect anything to happen, but I posted link to the IRC channel, and a link to some JS DoS utility, along with some instructions. I posted that several times, expecting it to just get lost in the flood of messages. Shortly after that I went AFK for 0.5-1h. When I went back there were several hundred people on that IRC channel and apparently they managed to bring some sites down.

So TV news covered it, the same or the next day. In the following days, it was few thousand people on that channel. And also someone defaced one gov site. Some news coverage, 2. No idea if that log is from the same channel.

After it was in the news, physical protests started, and soon spread all over EU. Various elected politicians beclowned themselves rather hard. It was the CurrentThing for some time.

The European Union didn't ruin its energy policy because of being fractured more than the US of A is.

USA also crippled their nuclear tech. EU got caught with pants down because they expected Putin to be "rational". Which was maybe wrong, but not necessarily stupid or unreasonable.

Cutting chip exports to China - is it really high int move, and not simply some base competence?

Soft sciences are rather incapable compared to STEM stuff. Maybe 160 IQ focused into math does miracles, while 160 IQ focused into soft stuff lets you predict people to some impressive - but not that terrifying - degree?

Or maybe social scientists are just way dumber? Physical Sciences Masters are vastly superior to Social Masters in math AND superior in verbal (study). No wonder: adding to my thesis, it's so painfully clear that our progress in social sciences is kneecapped by the political power of people motivated to use them to obscure rather than discover truth, which repels anyone with half a brain from those fields. Every bit of social science that holds the promise of conclusive, replicable and useful results is politically fraught (of course one could say that safer fruit has all been picked, but was there a lot of it?). We could have had a predictive HBD-based science of economic productivity, criminality, cooperation and social cohesion half a century ago, to say nothing of this polygenic score era, but instead we're still wading through the morass of implicit bias tier fraud and «is freedom of speech worth the consequences»/«shut up scum you have freedom you just have nothing to say» pablum, with grants going into scientific stamp collecting. What do you think comes first, stupidity of the scientists or malice of their effective managers? Does it matter after incentives are, time and again, so clearly spelled out to early career scientists?

On a separate note, @4bpp doesn't seem to give enough credit to Napoleon. It's a somewhat popular idea, that maybe the field is so packed and competitive, our mediocrities would have been brilliant by the standards of yesteryear. Maybe it's powered by the progress in performance of professional athletes, or perhaps by tool-aided improvement in stuff like music. Admittedly I may underestimate Blinken, whose distinguishing features seem to be reliability, stalwart Zionism running in the family, and a history of activism – rather than anything IQ-related (then again, how would I be able to tell if he's hiding his power level?). But, well… this is normal. Napoleon was abnormal.

I translated fun fragment of the irc log (link to a pastebin containing it is in "Some news coverage").

120123.070109 <+hrhrhrhr> they shut down the server ;]

120123.071050 <+hrhrhrhr> do you know what was the password?

120123.071052 <+hrhrhrhr> we got in

120123.071055 <+hrhrhrhr> we break the hash

120123.071056 <+hrhrhrhr> and behold

120123.071058 <+hrhrhrhr> admin1

120123.071059 <+hrhrhrhr> ahahahahaa

120123.071100 <+k0stek> they swapped index [file?]

120123.071100 <+hrhrhr> xD

120123.071102 <+corror> kurwa

120123.072933 <+k0stek> hrhrhrhr but admit you wouldn't guess such a password :D

120123.072942 <+hrhrhr> dude

120123.072946 <+hrhrhrhr> we were thinking hard xD

120123.072952 <+hrhrhrhr> we found a bypass to the panel

120123.072955 <+hrhrhrhr> and there, sql injection

120123.072955 <+hrhrhrhr> xd

120123.072959 <+corror> and then here is, such a password

120123.073003 <+hrhrhrhr> and it [SQL] was so twisted

120123.073005 <+hrhrhrhr> fuck me

120123.073006 <+hrhrhrhr> ;d

120123.073011 <+hrhrhrhr> this SQL was fucked up

120123.073018 <+hrhrhrhr> and so, we're pulling passwords

120123.073021 <+hrhrhrhr> we break the hash

120123.073041 <+hrhrhrhr> and it was admin:admin1

120123.073047 <+hrhrhrhr> admin;admin1

120123.073047 <+hrhrhrhr> xd