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PaperclipPerfector  4mo ago (text post)   29264 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 6, 2025

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Matt Yglesias made a good point about Trump and authoritarianism:

But here’s what worries me. Nobody agrees with the presidential candidate that they prefer about everything. It is completely normal and appropriate to vote for someone with some reservations or points of criticism. If, all things considered, you preferred Trump to Harris, notwithstanding Trump’s election lies, encouragement of violence, and promises to let the perpetrators off the hook, then that’s your right. There were plenty of other issues in the mix in 2020 as well. What I see, though, from the billionaires who disavowed Trump only to come back to his side, isn’t people saying, “That really was an awful day and I hope he doesn’t follow through on the pardons, but I decided that taxes and energy are more important.” Instead, they’ve gone totally silent on the points of criticism.

And there’s an alarming doublethink about this.

If I were to say, “It’s irresponsible to back Trump regardless of your views on taxes and energy because he’s an authoritarian menace,” these people would say I’m being a hysterical lib.

But if I were to say, “It’s fine to vote for Trump while still strongly disagreeing with what he did around 1/6, I’d just like to hear you say that in public,” the response would be that everyone knows it’s best to avoid Trump’s bad side.

If you’re not willing to voice criticism of the president, even while generally supporting him, because you’re afraid of retaliation, that seems at least a little bit like Trump is an authoritarian menace. I have concerns! And what I would love more than anything is for Trump supporters in the business world or at conservative nonprofits to set my mind at ease, not by arguing with me about whether Trump is an authoritarian menace, but by showing me that they don’t fear him and can offer pointed, vocal criticism of his conduct and strong condemnation of these potential pardons.

That’s how pluralistic politics works: You agree with people when you agree with them, but you don’t shy away from disagreeing when you disagree. And to a considerable extent, the fate of the country hinges more on what right-of-center people choose to say and do if and when Trump abuses his powers than on what anyone in the opposition does.

The article starts with examples of conservatives criticizing Trump in the wake of the 2021 riot and says "...I also respect (or at least understand) the decision of those who’ve decided they care more about other things than about Trump’s low character and basic unfitness for office. But what disturbs me is the extent to which the entire conservative movement has retconned not just the events of four years ago, but their own reactions to those events, such that these days, to be disturbed by them is considered some form of lib hysteria." At what point are Trump's allies tacitly seconding accusations that Trump is an authoritarian and his "movement" a cult of personality, by treating him as though the accusations are true?

Edit: I think discussion of whether or not the 2021 riot should be a factor in the 2024 election is missing the point. Substitute whatever criticisms you think are warranted; Yglesias's observation of doublethink isn't dependent on people not making a specific criticism, it's that refusal to criticize someone for their history of at least failing to avoid the appearance of authoritarian or corrupt behavior can be a tacit admission of fear that the person is, in fact, authoritarian or corrupt. The question I asked is the bounds of when we should make that inference.

I saw this MattY thread contemporaneously with him putting it up and I think it is a classic example of left/progressives still not understanding right/conservatives at all.

What MattY and others need to ask is this question: What if people who freaked out about Jan 6 were just...wrong? What if people in Republicans in the orbit of DC that went along with the freakout initially were just swept up in a wave of panic because their neighbors were leftists and probably anxious leftists at that. And I remember Meghan McCain once said about Jan 6 that even going into it she'd never seen the people of DC on such edge. Well what if that was all, when evaluated neutrally, stupid. I think it was. I think most/all of the people who have flipped have flipped in the direction of it being stupid. And people flipping in that direction are correct.

Why?

Well, to start, Jan 6 is initially a political protest of the actions of the government. Held in the capitol city. And it progressed towards the building that houses the members of the government body being protested. In other words, there is no more legitimate time, place, and manner to conduct a protest. They were protesting government actions happening inside a government building in the vicinity of said government building. To think this was an illegitimate protest is to think protest itself is illegitimate, in which case, go join the Moldbug party.

Then what happened? A riot ensued. This happens from time to time with protests. But why did this one become a riot? The answer is simple: Incompetence by government officials. Security was understaffed. They did not establish a proper perimeter. THEY COULDN'T EVEN FIGURE OUT HOW TO CLOSE DOORS AND LOCK THEM. Let us really describe what happened on Jan 6: A cadre of armed men in body armor failed to hold the equivalent of a 16th century fort against unarmed, uncoordinated, mostly old people. They also happened to kill an unarmed woman who was jumping over some hastily assembled chair fort (are the Capitol Police toddlers? why are they making chair forts?).

Further, it has been revealed that intelligence about the size of the crowd was intentionally withheld from the leader of Capital Police. In addition his requests for overtime and other additional staffing requests were refused. In addition his requests for aid by outside agencies both before Jan 6 and on the day of the event were refused and/or delayed by several hours.

On top of that there are the less objective, but still suspicious things like the pipe bombs, Ray Epps, and other things that came out that increasingly made Jan 6 look like it was instigated/manufactured by anti-Republican/Trump elements within the federal government.

What does this boil down to? If you think Jan 6 is/was a big deal you are/were wrong. If you are right of center, there is a good chance you are religious or religious adjacent. If you are religious, what do you do when you were wrong? You repent. Now, Trump is not god, so you need no confess to your priest, but if you are a politician or media personality you need to confess to your constituents/readers. And I even Nancy Pelosi should do this. She should acknowledge how wrong and hysterical she and her movement were. But it is all the more pressing for someone on the right because of the culture and because of the fact they should have known better. The DC culture is almost a perfect reverse weathervane. They knew that and temporarily forgot it.

So this stuff has nothing to do with loyalty to Trump or authoritarianism. It all is about what a proper person does when they realize they were incorrect. Leftists can't see it through this lens because they dont understand the right because they 1) Can't see how Jan 6 isn't what they thought initially; and/or 2) Dont understand what repentance is.

I was working up a reply that was basically the same thing: people are being hypocritical and pretending, they were simply wrong about Jan 6th. I was also going to mention the crazy hearings and how they were specifically formulated to make the whole event even more opaque.

I also thought the term 'retcon' didn't make sense. I don't see how people can be 'rewriting' the events or the players. Details may be evolving, but it's not like Republicans are saying Jan 6th was actually about slavery...and it happened in 1776 to George Washington. I dunno...I didn't get it.

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