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I've tried coming at this topic from a few different angles over the years and I frequently find that one of the biggest hinderences to debates around gender is that there are many different and at times contradictory ways to be on both sides of the various questions regarding gender in modern society. I've decided to lay out what I think are the fundamental questions that people disagree with. In isolation I think I can reason any option for any of the below questions but certain combinations of answers seem like they can't coexist
Questions in dispute in the debates around gender:
\1. To what degree if any is gender related to sex?
A) gender and sex are the same thing B) gender and sex are tightly mapped but some people have a gender misaligned with their sex C) gender and sex are related but not tightly mapped D) gender is totally unrelated to sex\2. How many Genders are there?
A) two B) several C) Many D) A near infinite number\3. Who or what determines what a person's gender is:
A) society B) biology C) self\4. Sexual orientation(gay/straight/bisexual) is primarily related to the [Blank] of the object of attraction:
A) gender B) Sex C) Some combination of gender and sex D) none of the above\5. Are the differences between how men and women behave more socially or biologically derived:
A) Much more due to Social Pressures B) a near even mix C) Much more due to Biological differences\6. How much can an individual's gender change over time?
A) Gender can never change B) Gender is constant but someone's understanding of their gender can change C) Gender can change in response to dramatic life events D) Gender can be fluid and change frequently\7. Is the relationship between men and women or the relationship between males and females the primary focus of feminism?
A) men and women B) males and females C) both D) there is no difference\8. How is gender felt from a first person perspective?
A) an innate feeling separate from behavior and dress B) an inclination for certain behaviors and dress C) just the consequence of sexQuestions I'm excluding because while definitely relevant to policy discussions I don't believe are really fundamental to disagreements:
Are puberty blockers safe?
Do males and females differ in physical capability?
How well can any given transgendered person pass?
How much should we expect people to game gender affirming policies and what if anything should be done to prevent this
Examples playing with edge cases:
I - A Female dresses and behaves in a manner perfectly median in every metric for a woman in the society they live in. Is it legitimate for this person to identify as a man without changing any behavior?
II - A Female dresses and behaves in a manner perfectly median in every metric for a man in the society they live in. Is it legitimate for this person to identify as a woman without changing any behavior?
III - A Female, who dresses and behaves in a manner perfectly median in every metric for a woman in the society they live in, Meets A Female who dresses and behaves in a manner perfectly median in every metric for a man in the society they live in. They have sex. Was this a heterosexual coupling or a homosexual coupling? Does this answer change depending on what each partner identifies as? Does it matter if they never exchanged gender identity?
IV - A Male teenager is unsure about their gender identity, they are not classically masculine and are bullied for this. No one ever affirms their masculinity. They attempt a social transition and find those around them very supportive and constantly affirm their femininity which the teenager enjoys although doesn't particularly enjoy many of the feminine trappings. What criteria should the teenager use to gauge whether they are a girl, boy or other gender?
V - A Male who identifies as a man raised in a very standard American cultural context is abruptly transported to a different culture with exactly opposite norms for men and women but an otherwise similar culture. would you expect the person to identify as a man or woman?
VI - In A world where there are no visible secondary sex characteristics including strength differentials and a society where there is no social distinction between the sexes would this society invent gender? If so would gender primarily fall along sex lines?
Please feel free to compare and contrast how different sets of answers to these questions have different implications for these examples or new scenarios you find interesting or propose new relevant questions. I'm most interested in kind of mapping out how different 'factions' in the general debate might answer these questions.
edit: the formatting was right in the preview >_>
Puberty blockers? Terrible and unsafe. We should ban them.
Physical capacity? Totally different. Shouldn't even be a question imo.
Passing is related to whether people think they're one gender vs another.
Again, don't really understand this question.
Asking to have people figure out all 8 questions for different factions is a lot. I'd recommend you condense them.
I generally get the sense that you're anti-trans from these questions. I'd describe myself as someone who is fine with trans but not cool with it given our current level of technological advancement. Maybe these questions don't target me specifically.
I think the more important questions can be boiled down to 1) Should someone be able to choose their own gender/sex? 2) Does our current technology mean we should accept this in all cases? 3) Should children/non-mature adults be able to change their gender/sex?
So I see you take a pretty unstructured stance on gender. What most confuses me with people that take your view is how 8A interacts with some of your other answers like 2D and 6D. It really feels like you're trying to shove two very different concepts into the same framework. You have this kind of infinite soul of expression where each person's inner being fractures out to an exactly unique point that can never be fully expressed. And you have the societal scale general attitudes that arise as a consequence of the biological differences between males and females. These two ideas do probably interact with each other in some ways that could be interesting to explore but we can't really meaningfully talk through either of them if we have to use the same words to describe both.
I see the social scale attitudes as ultimately flexible and think they will get more and more loose as technology removes us from their biological origin. I don’t really have a problem with that.
In terms of each unique person's meaning, sure everyone is unique. I don’t know what you mean about souls fracturing out to a unique point though.
Do we just disagree on my first point here?
I find the instinct you have that gender is the appropriate word to use here confusing. If your belief is that technology and social progress is going to make traditional concepts of gender no longer have power then it seems to me like gender abolition is the more obvious path than gender essentialism and expansion. Males can be women and also gender is important and also gender is actually an expansive nearly undefinable characteristic seem like strange bedfellows. Is it not more simple to just say gender is outdated nonsense and people should be able to express themselves however they'd like? That seems to me the most obvious path of transhumanism.
If someone eventually wants and is able to take on the form of a jackal, as might tempt one of our mutual acquaintances, is it not more clean to say that he was a man, as in to say male human, and decide he'd fancy at least some time in the form of a jackal so he is currently a(likely anthropomorphic) jackal without all the weird metaphysics of claiming he was actually always the abstract gender of male jackal. What is this gender framework actually buying you besides confusion?
I think we'll have to go through a phase of gender expansion before it no longer matters. We can't just swap from modern day notions to anything goes.
Uhh, no? He's a jackal-man! I mean again I don't know if I'm following you down some of these rabbit holes. When it comes to intense trans / gender / sex language or whatever I just don't think it's worth defining every little thing.
I never said gender was important! It may be important in the here and now due to things tied to it like fertility, but I don't think it's important in itself.
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